[CALL TO ORDER]
[00:00:05]
IN A MOMENT OF SILENCE, I PLEDGE ALLEGIANCE TO THE FLAG OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, AND TO THE REPUBLIC FOR WHICH IT STANDS, ONE NATION UNDER GOD, INDIVISIBLE, WITH LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR ALL.
UM, COMMISSIONER EDISON PRESENT.
COMMISSIONER SERCO PRESENT, COMMISSIONER P*****K ROOT PRESENT.
AND LET THE RECORD SHOW THAT COMMISSIONERS SOLE AND ANDROSE ARE ABSENT.
[CHAIRPERSON'S WELCOME]
CAJON PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING.THIS MEETING IS BEING LIVE STREAMED ON THE CITY OF EL CAJON WEBSITE.
APPEALS OF THE FINAL DECISION OF THE PLANNING COMMISSION MAY BE MADE THIS EVENING MUST BE FILED IN WRITING WITH THE CITY CLERK BEFORE 5:00 PM MONDAY, SEPTEMBER 29TH, 2025, AND MUST INCLUDE A FILING FEE IF YOU WISH TO SPEAK ON EITHER A AGENDA ITEM OR NON AGENDA ITEM TONIGHT.
PLEASE FILL OUT THE REQUEST TO SPEAK CARD LOCATED BY THE SECRETARY AND GIVE IT TO THE SECRETARY WHO WILL CALL YOUR NAME TO SPEAK.
WHEN THE AGENDA ITEM IS MADE UP FOR PUBLIC COMMENT, WE ASK THAT YOU GIVE YOUR NAME AND YOUR LAST NAME AND SPELLING SPEAKERS ARE LIMITED TO THREE MINUTES.
THE DISPLAY ON THE PODIUM AS WELL AS THE OTHER MONITORS IN THE CHAMBER WILL SHOW TIME COUNTING DOWN AT 30 SECONDS.
THE PODIUM CLOCK WILL READ OUT, WILL TURN RED.
SIGNIFYING YOU HAVE 30 SECONDS UNTIL THE END OF YOUR TIME.
APPLICANTS AND INDIVIDUALS REPRESENTING GROUPS OF PEOPLE MAY BE ALLOWED MORE TIME IF APPROPRIATE.
ALL PUBLIC HEARING COMMENTS SHOULD BE MADE ADDRESSED TO ME AS THE CHAIR OF THE COMMISSION AND NOT TO INDIVIDUAL COMMISSIONERS OR TO STAFF MEMBERS.
PLEASE TURN OFF ALL ELECTRONIC DEVICES IF YOU HAVE NOT ALREADY DONE SO PURSUANT TO CITY COUNCIL RESOLUTION NUMBER 1 1 4 DASH SEVEN NINE A COMMISSIONER WHO HAS RECEIVED EVIDENCE RELATED TO THE MATTER BEFORE THE PLANNING COMMISSION, OTHER THAN AN UNESCORTED VIEW OF THE SUBJECT PROPERTY IS REQUIRED TO DISCLOSE SUCH MEETING AT SUCH INFORMATION AT THE HEARING.
AT THIS TIME, WE'LL TAKE COMMENTS FROM ANY MEMBER OF THE PUBLIC ON ANY ITEM OF BUSINESS WITHIN THE JURISDICTION OF THE COMMISSION.
THAT IS NOT ON THE AGENDA UNDER STATE LAW.
NO ACTION CAN BE TAKEN ON ITEMS BROUGHT BEFORE UNDER PUBLIC COMMENT EXCEPT TO REFER TO THE REFER TO STAFF FOR ADMINISTRATION OR TO PLACE ON A FU FUTURE AGENDA ITEM.
IS THERE ANYONE WHO WISHES TO ADJUST THE COMMISSION, COMMISSION UNDER PUBLIC COMMENT? PLEASE COME FORWARD SEEING NONE.
WERE THERE ANY PUBLIC COMMENTS SUBMITTED PRIOR THE MEETING? NO.
[CONSENT]
CALENDAR.A SINGLE MOTION WILL COVER ALL ITEMS ON THE CONSENT CALENDAR.
DOES THE COMMISSION WISH TO PULL ANY CONSENT CALENDAR ITEMS FOR DISCUSSION? NOPE.
DOES STAFF WISH TO PULL ANY ITEMS FOR DISCUSSION? NO CHANGES FROM STAFF.
I'LL MOVE TO ADOPT THE MINUTES AS RECORDED.
WE HAVE A MOTION FROM COMMISSIONER CIRCLE, SECOND BY PAULA ROOT, PLEASE VOTE.
MOTION CARRIES BY UNANIMOUS VOTE OF MEMBERS PRESENT.
[Public Hearing Item 2]
HEARING IS ITEM NUMBER TWO, PROJECT NAME AUTO GLASS INSTALLATION AND WINDOW TINTING.THE REQUEST IS FROM A ONE AUTO GLASS AND WINDOW TINTING COMPANY.
STAFF RECOMMENDATION IS TO APPROVE STAFF.
UH, SO THE PROPOSED, UH, LOCATION FOR AUTO AUTOMOBILE SERVICES TO INCLUDE GLASS INSTALLATION AND WINDOW TINTING.
IS IT 9 4 4 BROADWAY? UH, YOU MAY BE FAMILIAR WITH 9 4 4 BROADWAY.
IT'S, UH, HISTORICALLY BEEN A, UH, RETAIL GLASS SHOP WHERE, UH, PEOPLE WOULD FREQUENTLY GO GET, UH, GLASS REPLACED FOR WINDOW FRAMES OR ALSO FOR AUTOMOBILES.
UM, THE, UH, PROPOSED BUSINESS THAT'S LOOKING TO MOVE IN, WE'LL BE DOING, UM, WINDOW TINTING.
UM, AND, UH, THEY ARE PROPOSING TO DO ALL ACTIVITIES WITHIN THE EXISTING BUILDING.
UH, SO THIS IS AN AERIAL VIEW OF THE SUBJECT SITE.
UH, IT'S ON THE NORTH SIDE OF BROADWAY BETWEEN NORTH MOLLISON AND NORTH ANSA STREET.
UM, THE SITE IS SURROUNDED BY COMMERCIAL USES TO THE EAST AND WEST AND TO THE SOUTH.
UH, THERE ARE SOME RESIDENTIAL USES.
[00:05:02]
UH, THE GENERAL PLAN DESIGNATION FOR THE SUBJECT SITE IS A GENERAL COMMERCIAL, AND THE ZONING IS ALSO A GENERAL COMMERCIAL.UH, THE SITE IS A LITTLE OVER A THIRD OF AN ACRE, AND THERE IS THE EXISTING TWO STORY BUILDING THAT'S THERE, UM, JUST UNDER 6,000 SQUARE FEET.
UM, THEY AREN'T PROPOSING ANY CHANGES TO THE EXISTING STRUCTURE, ALTHOUGH THERE ARE SOME, UH, IMPROVEMENTS TO THE SITE, UH, INCLUDING SOME LANDSCAPING, UM, SOME PERMITTING FOR FENCING, AS WELL AS SOME PERMITS FOR, UH, SCIENCE.
SO HERE'S THE, UH, CURRENT CONDITION OF THE SITE.
SO THEY HAVE MADE SOME, UH, EXTERIOR IMPROVEMENTS, UH, WITH SOME PAINT AS WELL AS THE, UH, SIGNS, UH, THAT ARE, UH, IN THE PROCESS OF BEING PERMITTED.
UH, FOR THE CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FINDINGS, UH, STAFF BELIEVES THAT THE PLANNING COMMISSION CAN MAKE THE FINDINGS TO APPROVE THE CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT.
UM, IT WOULD BE CONSISTENT WITH THE GENERAL COMMERCIAL, UH, DESIGNATION FOR THE GENERAL PLAN.
UH, THERE'S NO CHANGES, UH, TO THE EXISTING, UH, DEVELOPMENT AT THE SITE.
UM, THE OVERALL OPERATION OF, UH, AUTO GLASS, UH, TINTING AND INSTALLATION, UH, WOULDN'T BE, UH, UH, CREATING ANY ISSUES WITH SURROUNDING PROPERTIES AND IT WOULDN'T GENERATE SMOKE ODORS OR DUST, UM, ET CETERA.
UM, AND IT WOULD, UH, MAINTAIN SOME CONTINUITY.
CONTINUITY WITH THE PROPERTY'S HISTORIC COMMERCIAL USE OF, UH, GLASS, UH, GLASS SALES.
SO OVERALL, UH, FOR CQA, UH, THE CALIFORNIA ENVIRONMENTAL QUALITY ACT, UH, THE PROJECT WOULD BE EXEMPT AS AN EXISTING FACILITY, UH, WITH UH, NO CHANGES.
AND SO STATUS RECOMMENDATION IS THAT THE PLANNING COMMISSION ADOPT THE NEXT RESOLUTIONS IN ORDER APPROVING THE CQA EXEMPTION, UH, AS WELL AS THE CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT.
SO THAT CONCLUDES MY PRESENTATION.
HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS.
ANY QUESTIONS FOR STAFF? I HAVE JUST ONE QUESTION.
UH, IS THE PROPERTY IMMEDIATELY EAST ALREADY? AN AUTO GLASS COMPANY? OR, I MAY BE CONFUSING THIS BECAUSE MANY YEARS AGO THE, THERE WERE TWO SEPARATE GLASS COMPANIES MM-HMM
AND THEN AT ONE POINT THE ONE ON THE EAST BOUGHT THE ONE ON THE WEST.
AND SO JUST, IS IT A DIFFERENT COMPANY? SAME COMPANY? UM, WELL, THE PROPERTY TO THE EAST, UH, WAS HISTORICALLY REFERRED TO AS THE RED BARNS.
UM, THE RED BARNS, UH, WERE APPROVED UNDER A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR AUTO SALES, UM, APPROXIMATELY A YEAR AGO.
UM, THEY'VE BEEN, UH, FINISHING UP THEIR SITE IMPROVEMENTS AND THEY PAINTED THE BUILDINGS RECENTLY.
UM, OVER THE YEARS, THERE HAVE BEEN VARIOUS AUTO RELATED USES INSIDE THE RED BARN.
UH, BUT AS OF RIGHT NOW, THEY'RE ONLY APPROVED FOR AUTO SALES.
DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS? THE ONLY QUESTION I HAD WAS, I'VE HAD WINDOW TINTING IN THE PAST AND THEY, THEY DO USE WATER TO CLEAN THE WINDOWS AS FAR AS I SAW ON THE REPORT THAT THEY'RE GONNA USE TOWELS FOR CLEANUP.
IS THERE ANY SECONDARY, I DON'T THINK THEY USE A EXORBITANT AMOUNT OF WATER, BUT IS, IS IT JUST GONNA BE TOWEL CLEANUP? UH, I KNOW THAT, UM, ENGINEERING SERVICES AND OUR STORMWATER DIVISION, UM, LOOKED AT, LOOKED INTO THIS AND LOOKED AT THE AMOUNT OF, UM, OF WATER THAT WOULD BE GENERATED AND DETERMINED THAT WHAT WAS BEING PROPOSED WOULD BE IN COMPLIANCE WITH OUR STORMWATER REGULATIONS.
UM, I, THE APPLICANT IS HERE AND PRESENT IN THE AUDIENCE AND COULD SPEAK TO IT, BUT, UM, GENERALLY THE WAY IT WAS CHARACTERIZED IN THE APPLICATION IS THAT IT'S REALLY JUST, UH, MINIMAL AMOUNTS OF WATER THAT, UH, DO NOT GENERATE A NEED FOR A DRAIN OR OTHER USE.
IT'S JUST ESSENTIALLY CLEANED UP WITH TOWELS.
IF THERE'S NO OTHER QUESTIONS, I'LL OPEN UP THE PUBLIC COMMENT.
IS THERE ANY SPEAKER CARDS? UH, YES.
I HAVE ONE SPEAKER CARD, DONNA HOPEWELL.
AND, AND I SHOULD SAY THAT, UH, DONNA HAD, UH, INDICATED SUPPORT, UH, FOR THE REQUEST, I BELIEVE WAS REPRESENTING THE, UH, PROPERTY OWNER.
UM, BUT, UH, DIDN'T NEED TO SPEAK.
DONNA, DID YOU WANT TO COME UP AND SPEAK? ARE YOU PRESENT? THANK YOU FOR COMING.
AND AS YOU COME UP, CAN YOU JUST GIVE US YOUR NAME AND SPELL YOUR LAST NAME? YES.
AND I WAS JUST HERE TO COMMENT ON, MY FATHER IS OWNER OF THE PROPERTY AND WE WERE, UM, CONCERNED ABOUT THE FENCING IN THE BACK.
WE NOTICED THAT YOU HAD A CONCERN ABOUT IT.
UH, THE PRIOR FENCING WAS A SIX FOOT WOODEN FENCE ACROSS THE PROPERTY LINE.
AND, UM, IT JUST GOT DEMOLISHED.
HOMELESS PEOPLE WERE COMING IN.
THE PREVIOUS TENANT WE HAD, YOU KNOW, ALMOST TWO YEARS TRYING TO GET 'EM OUT OF THERE.
AND IT WAS JUST, THE PROPERTY WAS A DISASTER.
AND SO WE REMOVED THE WOODEN FENCE AND
[00:10:01]
ACCORDING TO THE FENCE GUY I USED, HE SAID IT WAS OKAY TO PUT AN EIGHT FOOT FENCE.SO WE PUT AN EIGHT FOOT FENCE, A CHAIN LINK.
NOW WE DID PUT BARBED WIRE ACROSS THE TOP, WHICH CAN BE REMOVED IF IT NEEDS TO, BUT EVER SINCE THE FENCE HAS BEEN REPLACED, THERE HAS NOT BEEN ANY PROBLEM WITH HOMELESS PEOPLE.
AND THERE WAS DRUG ACTIVITY WE UNDERSTAND ON PROPERTY.
AND EVERYTHING'S BEEN CLEAN SINCE WE'VE SECURED THE FENCING DEFENSE.
DOES ANYONE HAVE ANY QUESTIONS FOR THE SPEAKER? DOES, I KNOW IT'S YOUR FATHER'S BUSINESS, BUT WITH, WITH THE AUTO SERVICES YOU'RE DOING THERE, WHAT TYPE OF, WHAT PROPERTY? OH, FATHER'S PROPERTY? YEAH, THE PROPERTY OWNER.
SO YOU, SO YOU DON'T KNOW ABOUT THE AUTO SERVICES THAT ARE DONE THERE? NO, BUT THE OWNER OF THAT COMPANY, OUR NEW TENANT, HE IS HERE PRESENT.
AND THEN I HAVE TO COMMENT, THANK YOU FOR THE FENCING.
'CAUSE I ACTUALLY, I'VE HAD ISSUES BEFORE WITH THE WINDOW THING BECAUSE OF PRIOR EMPLOYEES, SO MM-HMM
I'M GLAD THAT THAT HAS HELPED.
ANY, ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? THAT'S GOOD.
ANYONE I MOVE TO CLOSE PUBLIC HEARING.
MOTION CARRIES BY UNANIMOUS VOTE OF MEMBERS PRESENT.
SO ANY DISCUSSION ON THIS ITEM? I DON'T THINK SO.
PRETTY CLEAN, PRETTY STRAIGHTFORWARD FORWARD.
DOES ANYONE WANNA MAKE A MOTION? I WILL BE HAPPY TO MAKE A MOTION.
I MOVE TO ADOPT THE NEXT RESOLUTIONS IN ORDER APPROVING THE SE Q EXEMPTION AND CUP NUMBER 2 0 2 5 DASH 0 0 1 6 SUBJECT TO CONDITIONS.
SECOND COMMISSION FROM COMMISSIONER SERCO, SECONDED BY PUBLIC GROUP, PLEASE VOTE.
AND MOTION CARRIES BY UNANIMOUS VOTE OF MEMBERS PRESENT.
[Public Hearing Item 3]
UH, EXCUSE ME.NUMBER THREE ITEM, UH, AGENDA ITEM, PROJECT NAME, TOBACCO DISPLAY, UH, AREA AND ECONOMIC LIMITATION CONDITION.
THE REQUEST IS TO CONSIDER INCREASING THE TOBACCO AND A RELATED PRODUCTS DISPLAY AREA AND PROVIDE A RELOCATION OPPORTUNITY FOR EXISTING SMOKE SHOPS.
IT IS CQL EXEMPT STAFF, EXCUSE ME.
STAFF RECOMMENDATION IS TO PROVIDE FEEDBACK ON THE PREFERRED ALTERNATIVES STAFF.
SO, UH, THIS ITEM WAS INITIATED BY THE CITY COUNCIL ON JULY 22ND, 2025.
UM, THEY ASKED STAFF TO LOOK AT OPTIONS FOR INCREASING TOBACCO DISPLAY AREAS AND FOR POTENTIALLY ALLOWING, UM, AS WELL AS CONSIDERING, UM, POTENTIALLY ALLOWING THE RELOCATION OF EXISTING SMOKE SHOPS.
UM, AND THEN WE'RE ALSO, EVENTUALLY WE'LL PROPOSE SOME, UH, LANGUAGE FOR, UH, CLEANUPS BASED ON SOME STATE LAW CHANGES RELATED TO TOBACCO SALES, UM, BEING, UH, 21 YEARS OF AGE NOW INSTEAD OF 18 YEARS OF AGE.
SO THERE'LL BE SOME ADDITIONAL CLARIFICATIONS FROM STAFF, UH, IN THE FINAL VERSION OF THE ORDINANCE.
UM, SO JUST TO START OFF WITH, UH, DEFINITIONS.
UM, SO A TOBACCO RETAILER IS ALLOWED UP TO 16 CUBIC FEET OF DISPLAY AREA.
UM, 16 CUBIC FEET, UH, IS CLASSIFIED AS A SMOKE SHOP.
AND A SMOKE SHOP REQUIRES A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT AND IT HAS TO MEET CERTAIN, UH, SEPARATION STANDARDS FROM SENSITIVE USES AND RESIDENTIAL.
SO THE SMOKE SHOP ORDINANCE WAS APPROVED IN 2006, UH, WITH THOSE SPATIAL STANDARDS AND ANY SMOKE SHOPS THAT WERE EXISTING BACK IN 2006, UH, WERE, UH, DEEMED LEGAL NON-CONFORMING, MEANING THAT THEY WERE LEGALLY ESTABLISHED, BUT THEY DIDN'T MEET THE REGULATIONS THAT WERE IN THAT 2006 CODE AND THEY WERE REQUIRED TO OBTAIN A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT.
UH, SO CURRENTLY, UH, CITYWIDE, WE HAVE A TOTAL OF 89 TOBACCO RETAILERS, AND WE HAVE EIGHT SMOKE SHOPS FOR A TOTAL OF, UH, 97, UH, TOBACCO RETAIL SALES LOCATIONS.
SO THIS MAP SHOWS THE 97 TOTAL LOCATIONS.
UH, UH, SO WE WENT OUT AND ACTUALLY VISITED ALL 97 OF THE LOCATIONS IN ADVANCE OF THIS HEARING IN ORDER TO GET AN A FEELING FOR, UH, WHAT WAS GOING ON AT THE TOBACCO RETAILERS.
UH, ONE OF THE CONCERNS, UM, EXPRESSED AT THE COUNCIL MEETING WAS THAT, UM, THE 16 CUBIC FEET OF DISPLAY AREA WASN'T SUFFICIENT TO ACCOMMODATE THE DISPLAY OF, OF HOOKAH OR, UH, HOOKAH PIPES, UH, JUST BECAUSE THEY CAN BE LARGER IN SIZE.
AND SO WHAT WE WANTED TO DO WAS TO GO OUT AND LOOK AND SEE,
[00:15:01]
UM, CITYWIDE HOW MANY OF THE TOBACCO RETAILERS ARE ACTUALLY DISPLAYING HOOKAH.AND SO WHAT WE FOUND, UH, HERE IS THE, THE GREEN ONES, UH, WERE DISPLAYING HOOKAH.
THAT'S A TOTAL OF 24 OF THE 97, SO ABOUT A QUARTER OF THE EXISTING, UH, TOBACCO RETAILERS.
SO ONE OF THE DIFFICULT CONCEPTS TO UNDERSTAND IS THE 16 CUBIC FEET, UM, MAXIMUM RETAIL DISPLAY AREA.
UM, SO 16 CUBIC FEET, UH, FOR EASY MATH PURPOSES WOULD BE A FOUR BY FOUR CABINET.
THAT WOULD BE, UM, ONE FOOT IN DEPTH.
UM, ALTERNATIVELY YOU COULD HAVE A, UH, CABINET THAT WAS SMALLER IN DEPTH.
SO IF WE WENT TO AN EIGHT BY FOUR CABINET, UH, THAT WAS ONLY SIX INCHES IN DEPTH, THAT WOULD ALSO BE A TOTAL OF APPROXIMATELY, UH, 16 CUBIC FEET.
UM, WHAT I'VE DONE HERE IS I'VE TAKEN A GENERIC PICTURE OF A SEVEN 11, UM, AS AN EXAMPLE.
SO THIS IS NOT A LOCATION THAT IS HERE IN THE CITY OF EL CAJON, BUT I I THOUGHT THAT IT WOULD BE GOOD FOR, UM, TO ILLUSTRATE KIND OF THE, THE, UH, SPATIAL AREAS.
SO, UM, 16 CUBIC FEET IS GENERALLY WHAT YOU WOULD SEE IN THAT YELLOW BOX THERE.
SO THAT WOULD BE APPROXIMATELY AN EIGHT BY FOUR DISPLAY AREA WITH MAYBE SIX INCHES IN DEPTH WITH, YOU KNOW, SIX TO 10 PACKS OF CIGARETTES, UH, BEHIND THEM.
UH, THE PINK AREA THERE, UH, IS INTENDED TO ILLUSTRATE APPROXIMATELY 32, UH, CUBIC FEET.
UM, SO ONE OF THE OPTIONS FOR THE PLANNING COMMISSION TO DISCUSS THIS EVENING IS WHETHER OR NOT WE WANT TO, UM, INCREASE FROM 16 CUBIC FEET TO 32 CUBIC FEET.
SO, UM, THAT PINK BOX THERE WOULD GENERALLY, UM, SHOW WHAT A 32 CUBIC FEET DISPLAY AREA WOULD LOOK LIKE.
AND THEN, UH, THE LAST OPTION THAT WE BROUGHT FOR THE COMMISSION'S CONSIDERATION WOULD BE TO LOOK AT A, UH, PERCENTAGE, UH, DISPLAY AREA.
AND SO THIS, UH, TYPE OF DISPLAY AREA, UM, MAX, UH, IS, OR THE MAXIMUM MAXIMUM AREA FOR DISPLAY ON A PERCENTAGE BASIS IS USED ELSEWHERE IN THE CODE, UH, LIKE FOR ALCOHOL SALES.
SO FOR AT A CONVENIENCE MARKET, ALCOHOL SALES ARE LIMITED TO, UM, 10% OF THE RETAIL DISPLAY AREA.
SO, UM, THE COMMISSION, IF THEY SAW FIT, COULD DECIDE TO CHANGE FROM A, YOU KNOW, 16 OR 32, UH, CUBIC FEET, UM, MEASUREMENT TO A PERCENTAGE BASIS, WHICH IS KIND OF SIMILAR TO ALCOHOL.
SO THE, UH, THE BLUE BOX THERE, UH, WAS INTENDED TO ILLUSTRATE, UH, WHAT A PERCENTAGE LIMITATION COULD LOOK LIKE.
SO IF YOU HAVE A STANDARD, UH, 1500 SQUARE FOOT, UH, RETAIL, UH, CONVENIENCE MARKET, UM, THAT AREA THERE APPROXIMATELY 15 FEET IN LINEAR LENGTH ALLOWING DISPLAY ALL THE WAY UP TO THE CEILING BECAUSE YOU'RE NO LONGER WORKING WITH A CUBIC SQUARE FOOT MEASUREMENT, UH, WOULD, WOULD EQUATE IN GENERAL TO A, A LOW PERCENTAGE OF THE FLOOR AREA FOR THE CONVENIENCE MARKET.
SO AGAIN, JUST TO SUMMARIZE, THE THREE OPTIONS THAT WE'RE BRINGING FORWARD TONIGHT WOULD BE TO, UM, TO INCREASE THE DISPLAY AREA FROM 16 CUBIC FEET, UH, TO 32 CUBIC FEET, UM, TO MODIFY THE, THE DISPLAY AREA TO A PERCENTAGE OF THE RETAIL FLOOR AREA.
UM, THE 3%, UM, NUMBER WAS SUGGESTED IN THE AGENDA REPORT.
AND THEN OBVIOUSLY THE THIRD OPTION WOULD BE, UH, FOR THE COMMISSION TO, UM, NOT RECOMMEND ANY CHANGES TO THE CODE AND JUST TO RETAIN THE 16 CUBIC FEET LIMITATION.
THE SECOND ASPECT OF WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT TONIGHT IS THE OPTION FOR, UM, SMOKE SHOP RELOCATIONS.
UM, SO, UM, JUST A MINUTE AGO WE TALKED ABOUT HOW IN 2006 ALL SMOKE SHOPS THAT WERE, UM, LEGAL, UH, THEY WERE MADE LEGAL NON-CONFORMING.
THEY OBTAINED CONDITIONAL USE PERMITS, UM, AND THAT THEY, UH, THOSE SMOKE SHOPS THAT WERE LEGAL NON-CONFORMING AND HAD CONDITIONAL USE PERMITS, UM, ARE LOCATED, UM, CLOSER TO RESIDENTIAL AND CLOSER TO SENSITIVE USES THAN IS ALLOWED IN TODAY'S CODE.
SO ESSENTIALLY WHAT HAPPENS IS THOSE EXISTING SMOKE SHOPS, UM, THEY CAN'T MOVE, THEY CAN'T EXPAND, THEY CAN'T REALLY, IT'S VERY DIFFICULT FOR ANY CHANGES TO BE MADE.
AND SO ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE'RE ENCOUNTERING IS THAT, UM, IN CERTAIN LOCATIONS WE'RE SEEING, UH, PROPERTIES REDEVELOP OR WE'RE SEEING NEW USES COME IN AND WE'RE SEEING A DEMAND, UH, TO BE ABLE TO MODIFY SOME OF THE SMOKE SHOPS THAT ARE OUT THERE.
SO BEING THAT, UM, YOU KNOW, MOST OF THE AREAS ALONG EAST MAIN STREET AND BROADWAY ARE WITHIN 500 FEET OF RESIDENTIAL ZONED PROPERTIES, IT'S, IT'S REALLY HARD FOR ANY OF THE ONES THAT ARE ALONG THOSE, UH, THOSE ROADS TO RELOCATE.
AND SO WHAT WE WERE ASKING FOR FEEDBACK FROM THE PLANNING COMMISSION ON IS TO, UM, CONSIDER A SOME NEW, A NEW LANGUAGE IN THE CODE THAT WOULD ALLOW THOSE, UM, SMOKE SHOPS THAT ARE LEGAL NON-CONFORMING AND THAT HAVE CONDITIONAL USE PERMITS TO, UM, TO MODIFY THEIR LOCATION AS LONG AS THEY ARE, UM, NO LESS COMPLIANT, UH, THAN TODAY.
SO IF THEY WERE A HUNDRED FEET AWAY FROM RESIDENTIAL TODAY AND THEY WANTED TO MOVE TO LOCATION THAT WAS 400 FEET AWAY FROM RESIDENTIAL, WE COULD SUPPORT THAT, BUT THEY COULDN'T MOVE TO A LOCATION THAT WAS 50 FEET AWAY FROM RESIDENTIAL.
[00:20:01]
SO THEY WOULD'VE TO BE IN MORE COMPLIANCE, UH, WITH THE CODE AS IT WAS DRAFTED.UM, THE INTENT WOULD BE TO CONTINUE TO REQUIRE A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT.
AND THEN, UH, THE ONLY WAY THAT THEY COULD MOVE AGAIN WOULD BE IF THERE WAS AN INCREASE IN SEPARATION FROM THOSE SENSITIVE USES.
AND REALLY, YOU KNOW, IT WOULD BE AN OPPORTUNITY, UH, TO SUPPORT LOCAL BUSINESSES IF THEY WERE SUCCEEDING AND WANTED TO MAKE SOME MODIFICATIONS, UM, AND TO ENABLE THAT CHANGE.
SO FOR STAFF'S RECOMMENDATION, WE'RE JUST REQUESTING THAT THE PLANNING COMMISSION, UH, CONSIDER THE PROPOSED CHANGES, UH, TO THE ZONING CODE AND PROVIDE FEEDBACK.
UM, THIS IS A PUBLIC HEARING AND WE DO HAVE PUBLIC SPEAKERS THAT WANT TO SPEAK ON THIS TOPIC.
UM, SO WE'RE ASKING YOU TO CONSIDER, UM, ALL THE INPUT FROM THE PUBLIC, UH, PROVIDE FEEDBACK TO STAFF, AND THEN WE WOULD, UH, CONTINUE THE PUBLIC HEARING TO OCTOBER 7TH, 2025, AND THEN WE WOULD RETURN WITH A DRAFT, UH, DRAFT RESOLUTIONS FOR, UM, THE PLANNING COMMISSION'S CONSIDERATION.
SO THAT CONCLUDES MY PRESENTATION.
HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS.
ANYONE HAVE QUESTIONS? I KNOW I DO AT THIS TIME, NOT AT THIS TIME.
I DO HAVE A QUESTION IN REGARDS TO THE DISPLAY.
DOES IT AFFECT, IT MADE ME, THIS IS FREE KNOWLEDGE FOR ME.
UM, THE DISPLAYS FOR OUTSIDE MY CONCERN IS, IS THAT THERE'S A LOT OF THE, NOT A LOT, THERE ARE A CERTAIN NUMBER OF SMOKE SHOPS THAT WERE WITHIN WALKING DISTANCE WHERE KIDS DO WALK PAST THEM.
AND, UM, DOES THIS AFFECT THE OUTDOOR DISPLAYS, WHETHER INTERIOR, BUT THEIR DISPLAYS ARE OUTSIDE, IF THAT MAKES SENSE.
OR, UM, FOR TOBACCO DISPLAY, UM, IT HAS TO BE, UM, SEPARATED FROM THE PUBLIC SO IT CAN'T BE SELF-SERVE, SO IT WOULD BE BEHIND A COUNTER.
AND SO I, I WOULDN'T ANTICIPATE A, A CIRCUMSTANCE WHERE ANY TYPE OF, UH, TOBACCO MERCHANDISE WOULD BE DISPLAYED OUTDOORS.
IT'S NOT SO MUCH AS IT'S DISPLAYED OUTDOORS AS THE INSIDE DISPLAY IS AGAINST A GLASS WINDOW, SO IT'S VISIBLE FROM OUTSIDE.
I, I THINK WHAT I, THE WAY I WOULD ADDRESS THAT WOULD BE TO SAY THAT THE, ANY SMOKE SHOP STILL REQUIRES THE CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT.
AND AS PART OF THE CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT, THE OVERALL LAYOUT OF THE FLOOR PLAN AND DISPLAY AREAS COULD BE EVALUATED BY THE PLANNING COMMISSION.
UM, SO IF WE WERE TO HAVE ONE THAT PROPOSED TO RELOCATE, UH, WE COULD LOOK AT, UM, YOU KNOW, THE VISIBILITY AND, AND THE COMMISSION COULD ENTERTAIN THE IDEA OF WHETHER OR NOT THAT IS COMPATIBLE WITH THE SURROUNDING PROPERTIES AND USES AND WHETHER IT'S DETRIMENTAL TO THE SURROUNDING PROPERTIES BECAUSE OF THE VISIBILITY OF THOSE PRODUCTS.
SO I THINK IT WOULD BE PROBABLY MOST LIKELY ADDRESSED ON A CASE BY CASE BASIS.
AND THE ONLY OTHER QUESTION I HAD, I SAW THE ALTERNATIVES, THE, THE CONCERN I HAD WITH GOING TO A PERCENTAGE WOULD BE FOR THE LARGER SMOKE SHOPS, IT COULD BE, IT WOULD BE A LITTLE BIT DISPROPORTIONATE COMPARED TO OTHER ONES.
COULD, IS THIS SOMETHING WE COULD MAKE AND MAKE AN AMENDMENT IN A CAP? SHOULD WE DO A PERCENT RECOMMEND A PERCENTAGE? UM, CERTAINLY THAT WAS ONE OF THE, UH, ISSUES THAT WE IDENTIFIED AS BEING A POTENTIAL, UM, PROBLEM.
SO, YOU KNOW, A LARGER STORE, IF WE WENT ON A PERCENTAGE BASIS, COULD HAVE A PRETTY SIGNIFICANT, UH, FLOOR AREA DEVOTED TOWARDS, UH, THE SALE OF THESE TYPES OF PRODUCTS.
UM, A CAP IS CERTAINLY SOMETHING THAT THE COMMISSION COULD CONSIDER.
UM, SO INSTEAD OF JUST DOING A PERCENTAGE, YOU COULD DO A PERCENTAGE BUT A A NOT TO EXCEED.
SO MAYBE THAT'S, YOU KNOW, 300 OR 400 SQUARE FEET, UH, BUT THAT'S THE TYPE OF FEEDBACK THAT STAFF WOULD, WOULD BE LOOKING FOR THIS EVENING.
ANY, ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR STEPH? WELL, LET'S OPEN UP PUBLIC HEARING.
DO YOU HAVE SPEAKER CARDS? YES, WE HAVE UM, VINCE ULA WHO IS SPEAKING FOR UM, OTHERS HAVE SEATED THEIR TIME TO HIM.
GOOD EVENING, CHAIRMAN EDISON, I DON'T THINK YOUR MIC IS ON.
UH, I HAVE UH, 10 SPEAKERS HERE WITH ME TODAY.
I DON'T NEED ALL 30 MINUTES, I JUST NEED FOUR MINUTES.
WELL LET'S PUT YOU AT FIVE AND SEE WHERE WE'RE AT.
GOOD EVENING, CHAIR EDISON AND MEMBERS OF THE EL CAJON PLANNING COMMISSION.
MY NAME IS VINCE CATULA AND I REPRESENT EL CAJON CASH AND CARRY, LOCATED AT 1198 EAST MAIN STREET AND IMMEDIATELY ADJACENT TO THE HARBOR FREIGHT.
THE BUSINESS WAS ESTABLISHED IN 2007 AND SERVES PRIMARILY AS A CASH AND CARRY FOR GENERAL RETAIL MERCHANDISE AND HOOKAH PRODUCTS.
THE BUSINESS HAS MAINTAINED A CITY OF EL CAJON BUSINESS LICENSE AND TOBACCO RETAILER LICENSE SINCE OPENING IN 2007.
HOOKAH, AS SOME OF YOU KNOW, IS VERY UNIQUE AND DIFFERENT THAN OTHER TYPES OF TOBACCO AND HOLDS VERY SPECIAL RELIGIOUS AND CULTURAL VALUES THROUGHOUT THE MIDDLE EAST
[00:25:01]
AND ELSEWHERE.EL CAJON CASH AND CARRY IS KNOWN THROUGHOUT THE COUNTRY AS ONE OF THE PREMIER DISTRIBUTORS OF RARE AND HARD TO FIND HOOKAH, WHICH CAN ONLY BE SOURCED FROM THE MIDDLE EAST AND FOUND HERE IN EL CAJON.
THE BUSINESS OWNER, MR. RAMI TOMIKA FREQUENTLY GETS REQUESTS FROM ALL OVER THE COUNTRY SEEKING SPECIAL HOOKAH WITH SOME OF 'EM VALUED IN THE THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS.
SOME OF THEM ARE CONSIDERED PIECES OF ART AND IN MANY CASES THEY SERVE AS CENTER PIECES AND HOMES OR DECORATIVE PIECES.
ATOP FIREPLACE MANTLES I'VE BROUGHT WITH ME TODAY A FEW EXAMPLES, BOTH OF THEM PLEASE.
WHERE DID YOU GO? I'VE BROUGHT WITH ME TODAY A FEW EXAMPLES OF RARE HOOKAHS.
THIS ONE IS CALLED BAJA FROM IRAQ AND THIS ONE IS KIL MARON FROM EGYPT.
AND ONE OF THE VERY FIRST THINGS YOU NOTICE ABOUT ON ABOUT IT IS THE VERY DISTINCT SIZE AS OPPOSED TO A TRADITIONAL PACK OF CIGARETTES.
AS YOU CAN SEE, THIS HOOKAH IS ALMOST FOUR FEET TALL AND VERY QUICKLY TAKES UP THE ALLOTTED 16 CUBIC FEET.
UH, ABOUT FOUR, MAYBE FIVE OF THESE CAN SAFELY BE SAT AND TAKE UP 16 CUBIC FEET.
WHILE IN COMPARISON, THIS TRADITIONAL PACK OF CIGARETTES CAN FIT APPROXIMATELY 1,500 PACKS IN 16 CUBIC FEET, WHICH INCLUDES ABOUT 150 DIFFERENT BRANDS OR TYPES.
IN ADDITION TO THE HOOKAH ITSELF, THERE ARE COMPONENTS THAT ARE REQUIRED SUCH AS TOBACCO, KOHLS, HOSES, AND OTHER NECESSARY PIECES.
WHEREAS TRADITIONAL TOBACCO USER THAT MIGHT SMOKE CIGARETTE JUST NEEDS A SMALL LITTLE THREE AND A HALF INCH PACK WITH A SMALL LIGHTER THAT PROBABLY FITS INSIDE THE PACK OF CIGARETTES.
BECAUSE THIS INDIVIDUAL BUSINESS WAS ESTABLISHED ONE YEAR AFTER THE DEEMED APPROVED ORDINANCE WAS ADOPTED, EL CAJON CASH AND CARRY IS UNABLE TO PUBLICLY DISPLAY THESE HUNDREDS OF HOOKAH IT HAS IN ITS INVENTORY.
ESSENTIALLY WHAT HAPPENS IS A CUSTOMER WILL COME IN AND ASK TO SEE A SPECIFIC SIZE OR COLOR OR BRAND AND THEN AN EMPLOYEE THEN WILL PROCEED TO THE STOCK ROOM, PICK OUT A FEW SAMPLES THAT THEY THINK THE CUSTOMER MIGHT LIKE, BRING THEM OUT, AND THEN THE BACK AND FORTH STARTS HAPPENING WHERE THEY'RE BRINGING OUT DIFFERENT ONES THAT THEY MIGHT LIKE OR MIGHT NOT LIKE.
AND THE EMPLOYEE OFTEN, AS I MENTIONED, WILL GO BACK AND FORTH, WHICH AS YOU CAN IMAGINE IS A SUBSTANTIAL DISSERVICE TO NOT ONLY THE CUSTOMER BUT ALSO THE BUSINESS.
WE DON'T BELIEVE THAT HOOKAH SHOULD BE HELD TO THE SAME DISPLAY SIZE RESTRICTIONS AS A THREE INCH PACK OF CIGARETTES.
SO THEREFORE, AS AN EFFORT TO HELP MITIGATE I THINK THE INCIDENTAL IMPACT TO HOOKAH AS PART OF THE EXISTING TOBACCO ORDINANCE THAT WAS ADOPTED IN 2007, WE RECOMMEND OPTION NUMBER ONE, A PERCENTAGE OF FLOOR SPACE THAT'S LIMITED TO HOOKAH PRODUCTS ONLY.
SO IF WE WENT TO 10% OR 3% OR 5%, WHATEVER YOU RECOMMEND, THIS WOULDN'T BE INCLUSIVE OF CIGARETTES.
SO IT WOULD BE LIMITED TO HOOKAH PRODUCTS ONLY.
WE ALSO RECOMMEND THAT YOU CONSIDER REQUIRING A BUSINESS TO HAVE A MINIMUM OF 4,000 SQUARE FEET WITH A MAXIMUM OF 10% FLOOR SPACE DEVOTED TO HOOKAH, SIMILAR TO THE ALCOHOL SALES IN A GROCERY STORE AS REFERENCED IN THE STAFF REPORT, WE WOULD EVEN RECOMMEND TAKING IT A STEP FURTHER AND LIMITING THE TOTAL SQUARE FOOTAGE OF HOOKAH PRODUCTS TO 500 SQUARE FEET OF FLOOR SPACE, LIKE YOU MENTIONED EARLIER, SO THAT SOMEONE WITH A 20,000 SQUARE FOOT STORE DOESN'T HAVE 2000 SQUARE FEET DEDICATED TO HOOKAH PRODUCTS.
ALL WE'RE ASKING FOR TONIGHT IS FAIRNESS AND SOCIAL EQUALITY FOR THE DIFFERENT TYPES AND SIZES OF CULTURAL TOBACCO PRODUCTS SUCH AS HOOKAH, WHICH REQUIRES SUBSTANTIALLY MORE SPACE THAN A TRADITIONAL PACK OF CIGARETTES.
THANK YOU FOR YOUR CONSIDERATION.
I'M AVAILABLE TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS, BUT I SHOULD I TAKE THESE DOWN UP? NO, NO, YOU CAN LEAVE 'EM 'EM FOR NOW.
DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS? UM, NOT AN IMMEDIATE QUESTION, BUT UH, I HAVE SOME NEIGHBORS AND I DON'T KNOW WHAT WAS GOING ON, BUT THEY HAD A HOOKAH THAT WAS MAYBE ANOTHER FOOT TALLER THAN THIS AND AS THEY WERE PULLING IT OUT OF THEIR VAN, THEY DROPPED IT AND IT WAS GLASS AND I CAN'T IMAGINE HOW MUCH THAT WAS WORTH.
IT MADE ME NERVOUS WHEN HE PUT IT UP 'CAUSE IT YEAH, I COULD HEAR THAT.
YEAH, YOU COULD HEAR HOW SLOWLY HE MOVED UP.
I MEAN THIS IS EXPENSIVE INVENTORY HERE, ALL GROUP.
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UM, I KNOW IT MAKES SENSE BECAUSE THAT IS DEFINITELY LARGER.IT'S JUST COMMON SENSE IN A PACK OF CIGARETTES.
BUT REGARDS TO THE HOOKAH, THE PRODUCTS THAT GO ALONG WITH IT, WHAT IS THAT GOING TO INCLUSIVE IN THE SPACE THAT YOU'RE GONNA BE HAVING FOR THE HOOKAHS? SO THAT'S INCLUSIVE.
AND NONE OF THIS WOULD BE AVAILABLE TO THE GENERAL PUBLIC WOULD BE BEHIND A COUNTER.
SO A CUSTOMER COULD COME IN AND SEE IT AND SAY, CAN I SEE THAT ONE? CAN I SEE THAT ONE? CAN YOU GIVE ME A PACK OF KOHLS? CAN YOU GIVE ME A PACK OF THIS? AND SO FORTH.
MAY I JUST CLARIFY ONE ITEM PLEASE? UM, I DID WANNA BE CLEAR THE WAY THAT TOBACCO ORDINANCE, UH, TOBACCO RETAIL ORDINANCE IS STRUCTURED NOW IS THAT IT'S UM, IT'S LIMITED IN DISPLAY AREA TO THE 16 CUBIC FEET.
UH, BUT IT ALLOWS THE DISPLAY OF ALL, UM, TOBACCO RELATED MATERIALS.
SO IT DOES ALLOW WHO COULD DISPLAY.
AS OF RIGHT NOW IT'S JUST LIMITED TO THAT 16 CUBIC FEET AND HENCE THE, THE SPATIAL CONSTRAINT THAT THE SPEAKER IS ALLUDING TO.
UH, BUT UM, ALL TOBACCO PRODUCTS, PIPES, UH, TOBACCO RELATED PARAPHERNALIA IS ALL ALLOWED FOR DISPLAY UNDER TOBACCO RETAILER'S LICENSE AS OF TODAY.
UM, AND I THINK FROM STAFF'S POINT OF VIEW AND FROM AN ENFORCEMENT PERSPECTIVE, I THINK WHAT WE'RE RECOMMENDING IS, IS NOT TO, UH, CARVE OUT DIFFERENT DISPLAY AREAS FOR CERTAIN THINGS IS JUST TO SET A STANDARD OF, YOU KNOW, EITHER A 16 CUBIC FEET, 32 CUBIC FEET OR A PERCENTAGE OF THE FLOOR AREA AND THEN ANYONE CAN DISPLAY ANYTHING THAT THEY WANT THAT'S ALLOWED FOR DISPLAY UNDER THE TOBACCO, UM, RETAIL REGULATIONS.
THAT WAS GONNA BE MY QUESTION.
SO JUST SO DON'T GO AWAY, BUT I WANNA MAKE SURE THAT I UNDERSTAND.
SO HOOKAH, CIGARETTES, CIGARS, IT IS ALL GONNA BE UNDER THIS ONE CUP OR ARE WE BIFURCATING IT? JUST TO MAKE SURE I'M UNDERSTANDING.
SO UNDER TOBACCO RETAILER REGULATIONS, SO AT A SEVEN 11, ANY CONVENIENCE MARKET, ANYONE CAN COME IN AND GET A TOBACCO RETAILER LICENSE.
ONCE THEY HAVE THAT TOBACCO RETAILER LICENSE, THEY CAN DISPLAY UP TO 16 CUBIC FEET OF TOBACCO, UM, RETAIL MERCHANDISE.
THAT INCLUDES, UM, ANY DEVICES FOR SMOKING.
IT INCLUDES, UM, CIGARETTES, UM, TOBACCO PAPERS, ANY, ANY TYPES OF ITEMS THAT THEY WANT TO DISPLAY.
SO THERE'S NO CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT THAT'S REQUIRED AND THEY, SO THEY CAN DISPLAY, UM, HOOKAH.
SO AT, SO WHEN WE WENT OUT AND VISITED, UH, THE 97 DIFFERENT LOCATIONS, UH, WE DID OBSERVE, UH, YOU KNOW, MULTIPLE GAS STATIONS WHERE THEY HAVE, YOU KNOW, A SMALL 16 CUBIC FOOT DISPLAY AREA, BUT MAYBE THEY HAVE LIKE ONE HOOKAH THAT'S, YOU KNOW, SITTING ON OR NEXT TO THE CABINET.
YOU, YOU ANSWERED MY QUESTION.
SO IF IT WAS A PERCENTAGE OF THE FLOOR SPACE, THEY COULD, THEY COULD DO 10 HOOKAH OR THEY COULD DO 200,000 CIGARETTES IF THEY WANTED TO DO THAT WITH THAT PERCENTAGE OF THE FLOOR SPACE.
SO YEAH, THAT, THAT WOULD BE THE INTENT FROM STAFF BECAUSE WE DON'T WANT TO, UH, WE WANT TO UM, JUST ALLOW THE DISPLAY OF ALL MERCHANDISE AND THEN LET THE MARKET DETERMINE UH, WHAT NEEDS TO BE DISPLAYED.
THE QUESTION I HAD FOR, WHAT WAS THE BUSINESS THAT CAJON CASH AND CARRY, WHAT'S THE SIZE OF THAT BUSINESS? 4,500 SQUARE FEET.
IT'S PRIMARILY A GROCERY STORE.
THEY HAVE, UM, EVERYTHING FROM TOILET PAPER TO EGGS.
IS THERE ANY OTHER SPEAKER CARDS? WELL, I HAVE A SPEAKER CARD FROM RAMI TOMIKA, BUT HE INDICATED THAT, DO YOU WANT TO SPEAK OR DO NOT? HE'S THE BUSINESS OWNER IF YOU HAVE ANY
JUST PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME AND SPELL YOUR LAST NAME PLEASE.
HELLO, MY NAME IS RAMI TOMIKA.
I'VE BEEN, UH, I'VE BEEN IN EL CAJON SINCE, UM, 1992.
I OPENED, UM, THE STORE IN 2007 AND I'VE BEEN SERVING EL CAJON CITY SINCE THEN.
I HAVE NO VIOLATIONS IN MY, UM, SORRY.
AND UM, JUST TO LET YOU GUYS KNOW, I GET PEOPLE FROM ALL OVER AMERICA THAT COME TO ME.
WE HAVE WHO 'CAUSE THAT NOBODY HAS THESE WHO, 'CAUSE ARE MADE IN IRAQ, YOU KNOW, NOBODY IN AMERICA HAS 'EM.
THESE OTHER ONES MADE IN EGYPT.
SO I'M KNOWN FOR, FOR ALL THIS STUFF.
AND, UM, WE HAVE NO PROBLEMS THERE.
WE HAVE MANY RELIGIONS THAT COME TO US.
THEY BELIEVE IN US AND THAT'S ALL.
DO YOU GUYS HAVE ANY QUESTIONS FOR ME? NO, I JUST WANTED TO GIVE YOU AN OPPORTUNITY TO SAY YOUR PIECE.
IS THERE ANY QUESTIONS FOR THE OWNER? I DO HAVE A QUESTION.
UM, I, I'VE SEEN QUITE A VARIETY OF HOOKAHS IN THE LAST TWO DECADES IN ELCON.
UM, WOULD YOU SAY THESE ARE PROBABLY SOME OF THE LARGER ONES? YEAH, THESE ARE ONE OF THE LARGEST ONES.
WHAT WOULD YOU SAY AN AVERAGE SIZED HOOKAH WOULD BE ABOUT? MAYBE LIKE A THREE FOOTER, TWO FOOT AND A HALF MAYBE.
BUT WE SPECIALIZE IN THESE ITEMS AND PEOPLE KNOW US FOR
[00:35:01]
THIS, YOU KNOW? YEAH.I PROBABLY HAVE A HUNDRED OF 'EM DIFFERENT STYLES 'CAUSE WE LIKE IMPORT 'EM FROM IRAQ.
THIS ONE WE IMPORTED FROM EGYPT.
WE HAVE MANY DIFFERENT ONES, YOU KNOW, SO LIKE PEOPLE COME TO US AND ONE MORE THING IS A LOT OF THE LIKE, UM, UH, MUSLIM COMMUNITY AND, UH, THE CHRISTIANS AND THEY FEEL COMFORTABLE COMING TO US.
THEY DON'T LIKE COMING, GOING TO LIKE A SMOKE SHOP.
THEY JUST FEEL MORE COMFORTABLE TO COME TO US AND, YOU KNOW, THEY, THEY JUST, I DON'T KNOW, THEY, THEY, THEY DON'T, THEY DON'T LIKE TO SEE ALL THE PIPES AND ALL THAT STUFF.
YOU KNOW, THE BONGS AND ALL THAT STUFF.
YOU KNOW, THEY, THEY LOVE OUR PLACE AND WE HAVE NEVER HAD A PROBLEM THERE.
ARE THERE ANY OTHER SPEAKER CARDS? UH, YES.
OH, I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S, IF IT'S ON, I CAN'T FROM YOU.
CAN YOU, UH, I DON'T HEAR YOUR MIC YET, BUT CAN YOU, UH, SAY YOUR NAME AND SPELL YOUR LAST NAME PLEASE? UH, MY NAME IS SAMANTHA CRUZ.
AND JUST WANNA SAY GOOD EVENING COMMISSIONERS AND CHAIRMAN.
UM, I THANK YOU FOR THE OPPORTUNITY FOR ALLOWING ME TO SPEAK TODAY.
UH, I WORK WITH CASA NEIGHBORHOODS, A NONPROFIT HERE AND THAT DOES A LOT OF WORK HERE IN EL CAJON WITH PREVENTING TOBACCO USE AMONG YOUTH AND US JUST TRYING TO REDUCING IT TO AMONG ADULTS.
SO I JUST WANNA COME OUT AND JUST KIND OF JUST STRONGLY RECOMMEND THAT YOU GUYS JUST ADOPT A TURN OF THREE, JUST NOT TO CHANGE ANYTHING TO THE CODE.
AS THERE IS NO DEMONSTRATED NEED FOR THE TOBACCO AND SMOKE SHOPS TO BE GRANTED MORE DISPLAY SPACE FOR TOBACCO PRODUCTS, AS THE REALITY IS THAT THE NUMBER OF LEGAL PRODUCTS AVAILABLE FOR SALE IN CALIFORNIA, UM, HAS BEEN GREATLY REDUCED IN RECENT YEARS DUE TO STRONG STATE LAWS DESIGNED TO PROTECT PUBLIC HEALTH SINCE 2022.
UH, THE SENATE BILL 7 9 3 HAS PROHIBITED RETAILERS FROM SELLING FLAVORED TOBACCO PRODUCTS AND FLAVOR ENHANCERS, WHICH WERE A MAJOR DELIVERY DRIVER OF YOUTH TOBACCO USE.
AND JUST THIS YEAR, ASSEMBLY BILL 32 18 WENT INTO EFFECT REQUIRING THAT ONLY PRODUCTS INCLUDED ON THE STATE APPROVED ON FLAVORED TOBACCO LIST MAY BE LEGALLY SOLD.
AND THAT LIST IS ALSO SET TO BE FINALIZED AS IF DECEMBER 31ST OF THIS YEAR.
AND, UH, THESE POLICIES MEAN THAT THE RANGE OF TOBACCO PRODUCTS RETAILERS CAN NOW OFFER IS EXTREMELY LIMITED.
SO THEREFORE THERE'S GONNA BE POSSIBLY MORE SPACE FOR THEM TO EVEN ADVERTISE OR PUT THEIR PRODUCTS UP FOR DISPLAY IF KNOWING REGULAR TOBACCO PRODUCTS ARE GONNA BE A LOT MORE RESTRICTED OF LIKE THEIR OCCASIONAL LIKE CIGARETTES AND VAPES.
SO BECAUSE OF THESE RESTRICTIONS, UM, INCREASING DISPLAY SPACE IS NOT ONLY NECESSARY, BUT ALSO RISKS UNDERMINING THE PROGRESS THAT WE HAVE MADE FOR PUBLIC HEALTH EFFORTS.
LARGER DISPLAYS CAN CREATE APPEARANCE OF GREATER PRODUCT ITY AND NORMALIZED TOBACCO USE, PARTICULARLY AMONG YOUNG PEOPLE.
WE KNOW THAT THE RETAIL VISIBILITY AND THE MARKETING DIRECTLY INFLUENCE EXPERIMENTATION AND ADDICTION, ESPECIALLY FOR YOUTH IN VULNERABLE POPULATIONS.
BY KEEPING THE CURRENT CODE INTACT, THE CITY WILL BE SUPPORTING THE INTENT OF THESE STATEWIDE PUBLIC LAWS AND SENDING THE CLEAR MESSAGE THAT PROTECTING OUR COMMUNITY FROM HARMS OF TOBACCO REMAINS A PRIORITY FOR THESE REASONS.
I RESPECTFULLY URGE YOU TO ADOPT ALTERNATIVE THREE AND MAINTAIN THE EXISTING CODE.
DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS FOR THE SPEAKER? NOPE.
UM, THANK YOU FOR COMING, FIRST OF ALL.
UM, DO YOU SEE A DISTINCTION BETWEEN TOBACCO FLAVORED PRODUCTS THAT ARE AIMED TOWARD YOUTH AND HOOKAH? UH, YES, I DO.
I HAVE, I'M ALSO SEE A DISTINCTION ALSO ASIDE FROM, UM, THE WORK THAT I DO.
I'M ALSO TOBACCO RESEARCHER, SO I, I DO A LOT OF RESEARCH IN TOBACCO CONTROL AND ALSO PREVENTING, SO ASIDE FROM, YOU KNOW, DESPITE CIGARETTES RATES BEING REALLY LOW GREAT.
IN AS MANY YOUTH OR JUST PEOPLE SMOKING IN GENERAL.
UM, THE HIGHEST THING THAT WAS RECENTLY PUT OUT BY THE CALIFORNIA DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC HEALTH IS THAT THE HIGHEST, MOST USED PRODUCT AMONG YOUTH.
NOW THOSE UNDER THE AGE OF 21 IS H****R PRODUCTS.
SO, UM, IT'S INTERESTING TO SEE THAT.
SO I HAVE DEFINITELY SEEN THAT, OF COURSE, ALSO JUST TRACKING MEDIA, SOCIAL MEDIA, UM, POSTS AND STUFF LIKE THAT.
IT, THERE HAS BEEN A SHIFT OF GOING TOWARDS H****R PRODUCTS AMONG YOUTH.
AND WHAT DO YOU THINK THE SOLUTION WOULD BE TO THAT? FOR? THE SOLUTION FOR THAT IS TO, OF COURSE FOR CALIFORNIA LAWS.
AND AS OF COURSE AS YOU KNOW, LOCALITIES, UM, LAW ENFORCE, UM, POLICIES BE INCLUDING OF HOOKAH INTO THEIR
[00:40:01]
RESTRICTIONS AND THEIR COMPREHENSIVE TLS AND NOT BE EXCLUDING IT.THANK YOU FOR ANSWERING MY QUESTION.
ARE THERE ANY OTHER SPEAKER CARDS? YES.
CAN YOU SPELL YOUR LAST NAME PLEASE? HELLO? YES, IT'S COLBERT, C-O-L-B-E-R-T.
GOOD EVENING COMMISSIONERS AND CHAIRMAN.
UM, I THANK YOU FOR THE OPPORTUNITY TO SPEAK.
MY NAME'S DONNA COLBERT AND I'M THE EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF COMMUNITY ACTION SERVICE AND ADVOCACY.
CASA, AN ORGANIZATION COMMITTED TO PROTECTING YOUTH AND FAMILIES FROM THE HARMS OF TOBACCO.
AND I SPECIFICALLY WANNA TALK ABOUT, UH, TOBACCO RETAILERS AND NOT SMOKE SHOPS.
UH, WE RECOGNIZE THE HEALTH RISKS OF TOBACCO AND HOOKAH SAMANTHA EXPLAINED, ARE ALREADY WELL DOCUMENTED AND UNDERSTOOD.
UH, WHAT'S BEFORE YOU TONIGHT IS NOT A QUESTION OF WHETHER THESE PRODUCTS ARE HARMFUL.
IT'S WHETHER THE CITY SHOULD EXPAND HOW PROMINENTLY THEY'RE DISPLAYED IN OUR RETAIL STORES.
TOBACCO DISPLAYS ARE POWERFUL ADVERTISING.
THE LARGER THEY ARE, THE MORE UNAVOIDABLE THEY BECOME FOR YOUNG PEOPLE.
RESEARCH SHOWS THAT YOUTH WHO ARE REGULARLY EXPOSED TO THE TO THESE POWER WALLS ARE TWICE AS LIKELY TO START SMOKING AND VAPING.
MOVING FROM A FIXED CAP OF 16 CUBIC FEET TO A PERCENTAGE OF FLOOR AREA WOULD ALLOW LARGE RETAILERS TO DEDICATE ENTIRE WALLS TO TOBACCO.
NORMALIZING THESE PRODUCTS IN THE SAME WAY AS SNACKS OR SOFT DRINKS.
IN THE RE IN THE TOBACCO RETAILER STORES, THIS IS NOT JUST AN ADVERTISING ISSUE, IT'S AN ISSUE OF EQUITY.
EXPANDING DISPLAY SPACE WOULD INCREASE EXPOSURE FOR THOSE COMMUNITIES ALREADY CARRYING THE HEAVIEST BURDEN OF TOBACCO RELATED DISEASE.
UM, EL CAJON HAS BEEN A LEADER AT GOLD STANDARD IN TOBACCO PREVENTION, ESPECIALLY AMONG YOUTH.
AND THE EXISTING CAP IS PROVEN SAFEGUARD WEAKENING THE POLICY RISKS, YEARS OF PROGRESS.
WE RESPECTFULLY ASK THE COMMISSION TO RECOMMEND NO CHANGES TO THE CURRENT DISPLAY AREA RESTRICTIONS.
PROTECTING OUR YOUTH FROM UNNECESSARY EXPOSURE SHOULD REMAIN A PRIORITY.
IS THERE ANY QUESTIONS? UM, OKAY, I'LL I'LL BITE.
IT IS MORE FOR CURIOSITY AND JUST TO GET BOTH VIEWS GIVES US A CHANCE TO MAKE A, A MORE EDUCATED DECISION.
UM, GOING TO A LOCAL GROCERY STORE, NOT GIVEN IN ANY LOCAL GROCERY STORE, AND YOU PASS BY A LARGE AREA THAT'S WITHIN THEIR PARAMETERS GOING PAST THERE.
IS THERE ANY MORE SIGNIFICANT THAN GOING TO SEE A HOOKAH? IS THERE A DIFFERENCE? I THINK FOR ME PERSONALLY, YOU KNOW, I, I'M THINKING ABOUT WHEN THE GENTLEMAN WAS DISCUSSING HOW ALCOHOL IS, IS BASED ON, UM, SQUARE FEET.
AND WHEN YOU GO TO A GROCERY STORE, THAT STANDS OUT TO ME.
YOU KNOW, NOT SO MUCH WHEN I, WHEN I GO TO THE LOCAL VONS HERE, THEIR AREA'S NOT SUPER LARGE COMPARED TO THE WHOLE STORE.
SO THAT'S MY PERSONAL PERSPECTIVE.
I DON'T HAVE ANY STATISTICS ON THAT.
AND IT WAS A QUESTION ON THE FLY.
ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR THE SPEAKER? DO WE HAVE ANY OTHER SPEAKER CARDS? YES, I DO.
IF YOU COULD SPELL YOUR LAST NAME PLEASE.
MY NAME IS REBECCA BRANSTETTER AND I ALSO WORK FOR CASA AS A PUBLIC HEALTH ADVOCATE.
AND, UM, FIRST OF ALL, I'D LIKE TO SAY THAT SO MUCH OF OUR QUALITY OF LIFE IS DETERMINED IN THIS MEETING AS RESIDENTS AND BUSINESSES IN EL CAJON.
AND I JUST WANNA THANK YOU FOR THE TIME THAT YOU TAKE TO MAKE THESE DECISION, THESE DECISIONS THAT DETERMINE WHAT OUR NEIGHBORHOODS ARE GONNA BE LIKE.
UM, I'D LIKE TO ADDRESS THE PROPOSED CHANGE, UM, TO THE ZONING CODE REGARDING ALLOWING THE GRANDFATHERED SMOKE SHOPS TO MOVE.
UM, THEY, THEY WERE LOCKED IN AS, AS MR. AVI MENTIONED, UM, WHEN THE, WHEN THE CODE CHANGED IN 2006 AND THE PROPOSAL IS THAT THEY WOULD BE ALLOWED TO MOVE TO ONE OF FOUR DESIGNATED RESIDENTIAL ZONE, I MEAN COMMERCIAL ZONES, UM, OFFICE AND PROFESSIONAL NEIGHBORHOOD COMMERCIAL, GENERAL COMMERCIAL AND REGIONAL COMMERCIAL, I BELIEVE THE ONES.
AND, UM, THEY WOULD, AS LONG AS THEY, THEY COULD MOVE TO THOSE LOCATIONS PROVIDED THEY HAD A GREATER SEPARATION FROM, UH, RESTRICTED USES.
RIGHT NOW THEY'RE IN THE MIDDLE OF RESIDENTIAL AREAS AS AS, AS NOAH POINTED OUT.
[00:45:01]
TO BE THE, THE, THE ISSUE THAT'S, THAT'S THERE.SO THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT IS DEFINITELY BETTER.
UM, BECAUSE, BECAUSE OF THOSE RESIDENTIAL USES UNDER SECTION, UH, 17 2 4 0 7 0.
BUT I WILL SAY THAT THE MINIMUM DISTANCES THAT ARE SPECIFIED IN 70 17, 2 40 0 0 7 0 ARE SOLID AND OVERALL BETTER FOR PUBLIC HEALTH AND EXPOSURE TO CHILDREN AND YOUTH.
UM, WITH ONLY ONE EXCEPTION, AGAIN, THE MINIMUM DISTANCE THAT IS VIOLATED UNDER THE GRANDFATHERED LOCKED IN SMOKE SHOPS HAS TO DO WITH RESIDENTIAL, HOW CLOSE THEY ARE TO RESIDENTIAL AREAS.
AND I BROUGHT, UM, THIS MAP AND THIS AGAIN ABOUT SMOKE SHOPS AND THE DARK GRAY IS WHERE A THIRD OF THE RESIDENTS ARE UNDER THE AGE OF 21.
SO THEY'RE RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF ALL OF THAT.
UM, AGAIN, I'M NOT GONNA FIGHT THIS 'CAUSE IT'S BETTER, BUT IN A PERFECT WORLD, UM, IT WOULD BE GREAT TO SERVE AND SERVE THE CITY BEST.
I THINK IF, UM, THE NEW LOCATIONS WOULD ALSO MEET THOSE MINIMUM DISTANCE REQUIREMENTS.
DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS FOR THE SPEAKER? NO, THANK YOU.
DO WE HAVE ANY OTHER SPEAKER CARDS? NO MORE SPEAKER CARDS.
UH, I MOVE TO CLOSE PUBLIC HEARING.
I THINK I MISSED, UM, CAN I HAVE, UM, TRY AGAIN? THERE WE GO.
A MOTION CARRIES BY UNANIMOUS VOTE OF MEMBERS PRESENT.
OH, SO WHAT, SAY WHAT COMMENTS? WHAT DO WE GOT? WELL, QUESTION IN THE COMMENT, COMMISSIONER TO SPEAK.
IF WE DO MAKE THE SPACE BIGGER BASED ON SQUARE FOOTAGE OR YOU KNOW, PERCENTAGE OF THE SQUARE FOOTAGE, IT STILL HAS TO BE BEHIND A COUNTER, CORRECT? IT CAN'T, THAT'S CORRECT.
IT'S STILL, YEAH, YOU'D STILL HAVE TO SAY I'D LIKE A SKULL OR WHATEVER.
NOT THAT I CHEW TOBACCO, IT'S JUST WHAT CAME TO MIND.
UM, WELL, I WANNA SAY THAT, UH, WHO COULD OR ARE PIECES OF ART AND THERE THERE'S A LOT OF VARIETY.
IT WOULD BE HARD TO TAKE A SAMPLE SIZE OF THAT AND COMPARE IT TO A WALL OF CIGARETTES.
UM, AT THE SAME TIME, IF WE WERE TO SAY 200 SQUARE FEET IS THE MAXIMUM, I DON'T KNOW OF ANY TOBACCO RETAILER WHO WOULD FILL THAT WHOLE SPACE WITH CIGARETTE BOXES, THAT WOULD BE JARRING.
AND I DON'T THINK IT WOULD INCREASE ANY SALES, IT'D JUST BE A MONOLITH.
UM, BUT AT THE SAME TIME, I, I KIND OF WANT TO DISCUSS THE POSSIBILITY OF PERCENTAGE OF FLOOR SPACE WITH THE MAXIMUM CAP BECAUSE I THINK, UH, A SEVEN 11 DOESN'T NEED 200 SQUARE FEET OF DISPLACED SPACE.
THEY COULDN'T FIT THAT MUCH BEHIND THEIR COUNTER, BUT WE DON'T NEED WALMART TO HAVE TWO AISLES BEHIND THE COUNTER.
SO I THINK THAT WOULD BE THE, THE DIRECTION I WOULD TEND, ESPECIALLY FOR SOME OF THE LARGER RETAILERS.
AND WE'LL JUST TALK ABOUT CASH AND CARRY BECAUSE THAT'S THE, THE PROBLEM THAT'S BEEN PRESENTED TO US IS THEY HAVE A LARGE STORE, THEY HAVE A LARGE SUPPLY, A LARGE SELECTION, AND THEY'RE STILL 16 CUBIC FEET.
SO I THINK, UH, THE PERCENTAGE WITH A CAPA MAXIMUM WOULD ALLOW FOR SOME VARIETY WITHOUT GIVING, WITHOUT GIVING CASH AND CARRY A MONOPOLY ON SPACE.
UM, AND ALSO EVEN THOUGH IT'S NOT A STRAIGHT PERCENTAGE LIKE ALCOHOL, IT WOULD STILL ALLOW FOR SOME SIZING DIFFERENCES BETWEEN DIFFERENT STORES WITHOUT GOING TOO FAR OVERBOARD.
IT'S ALMOST LIKE A MEETING IN THE MIDDLE INSTEAD OF JUST CHANGING IT, IT'S, WE'RE GONNA CAP IT AT THE SAME TIME.
THE QUESTION I HAVE FOR STAFF WAS, TO HER
[00:50:01]
POINT OF I WAS HER MAP THAT SHE PUT UP AND THE GRANDFATHERING OF MOVING OF DIFFERENT, UH, SMOKE SHOPS.SO I DRIVE AROUND TOWN AND I, TO HER POINT, MOST OF THE SMOKE SHOPS NOT YOUR ESTABLISHMENT SO MUCH, BUT MOST OF THE SMOKE SHOPS I SEE ARE IN STRIP MALLS.
UH, THERE'S TWO THAT I PASS BY THAT ARE WITHIN WALKING DISTANCE.
ONE IS DIRECT WITHOUT GIVING THEIR NAME.
I MEAN KIDS WALK TO SCHOOL ALL THE TIME THERE.
SO HER POINT IS VALID AS FAR AS MOVING.
CAN YOU SPEAK TO THAT A LITTLE BIT? BECAUSE WE'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT PERCENTAGES, BUT NOW I WANNA TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THAT POINT.
UM, I THINK FROM STAFF'S PERSPECTIVE, YOU KNOW, WE ARE SEEING MORE DEMAND AT SOME OF THESE, UH, UNDERUTILIZED, UM, STRIP COMMERCIAL CENTERS WHERE THEY'RE LOOKING TO CONVERT INTO OTHER USES.
UM, SO LIKE AS AN EXAMPLE AT UH, BROADWAY AND SECOND STREET, UH, THERE'S THE FORMER, UH, CONROY'S.
AND SO THAT LOCATION, UH, HAS A, AN EXISTING SMOKE SHOP, UH, THAT WAS GRANTED A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT AND IS IN CLOSE PROXIMITY TO RESIDENTIAL.
UM, YOU KNOW, IT'S, IT'S A GOOD CANDIDATE REALLY TO DEMOLISH THE ENTIRETY OF THAT SHOPPING CENTER AND TO REDEVELOP THAT WITH SOMETHING NEW.
UM, YOU KNOW, WE RECENTLY HAD, UH, DUTCH BROTHERS COFFEE GO IN DOWN THE STREET.
THERE'S BEEN SOME DEMAND FOR, FOR NEW DRIVE-THROUGHS GOING IN, IN THAT AREA.
UM, SO THE ISSUE IS, IS IF THAT SHOPPING CENTER WERE TO BE DEMOLISHED, THAT SMOKE SHOP REALLY WOULDN'T HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO RELOCATE ELSEWHERE IN THE COMMUNITY.
SO THE THOUGHT PROCESS BEHIND IT IS, IS THAT IT'S AN EXISTING BUSINESS, UM, LOCALLY OPERATED AND GIVING THEM AN OPPORTUNITY, UM, IF THEY WERE TO BE ASKED TO LEAVE THAT SHOPPING CENTER TO MOVE TO ANOTHER LOCATION AS LONG AS THEY ARE NOT, UM, AS LONG AS THEY'RE IMPROVING THEIR SEPARATION FROM, UM, SENSITIVE USES.
SO, YOU KNOW, SO THE SENSITIVE USES EDUCATE ME.
IS THAT STATE LAW OR IS THAT CITY? UH, IT'S, IT'S OUR LOCAL, UH, MUNICIPAL CODE.
AND SO IT, IT REQUIRES A SEPARATION FROM, UH, RESIDENTIAL RELIGIOUS FACILITIES, UM, NURSERIES, COURTHOUSES, UH, PLAYGROUNDS, UM, SCHOOLS AND, UM, OTHER TOBACCO SHOPS.
THAT WAS 500 FEET YOU SAID, OR 100, UH, 500 FEET FROM RESIDENTIAL AND THEN, UM, A THOUSAND FEET.
THAT, THAT'S GOOD TO HAVE ON THE RECORD SO THAT WAY YOU GUYS AT LEAST KNOW, AT LEAST WHY SOME OF THIS IS HAPPENING.
IT'S, IT'S DUE TO WHERE WE'RE LOCKED IN AS FAR AS THE CITY ORDINANCES OR CITY CODES.
TO FOLLOW UP ON THAT QUESTION, IF WE WERE TO SAY YOU CAN'T RELOCATE WITHIN ANY OF THE ZONED ALREADY IN, UH, YOU'RE ALLOWED TO MOVE, BUT YOU HAVE TO MOVE COMPLETELY INTO THE CLEAR, HOW MANY PLACES IN ELCON ARE COMPLETELY IN THE CLEAR, LIKE 600 FEET AWAY FROM SENSITIVE USES, 500 FEET FROM RESIDENTIAL, A THOUSAND FEET FROM ANY OTHER SHOP.
HOW MANY SPOTS DO WE HAVE LIKE THAT? UH, I BELIEVE THAT'S TWO IN THE VICINITY OF PARKWAY PLAZA TWO.
SO IF WE PUT ONE IN A THOUSAND FEET AWAY FROM THAT WOULD DISQUALIFY THE OTHER ONE.
SO IT REALLY DOES BECOME, IT DOES BECOME CHALLENGING TO, TO LO TO RELOCATE A SHOP, UH, BECAUSE OF THOSE REQUIREMENTS.
AND, AND AGAIN, BECAUSE OF, UH, EAST MAIN STREET AND BROADWAY BEING IN CLOSE PROXIMITY TO RESIDENTIAL, UM, YOU KNOW, IT'S, IT'S VERY DIFFICULT TO FIND A LOCATION ALONG THOSE CORRIDORS.
AND SO YOU REALLY END UP IN THE LARGER REGIONAL COMMERCIAL CORRIDORS TO MEET THOSE STANDARDS.
WE DON'T REALLY HAVE ANY PLACES THAT ARE FAR AWAY FROM RESIDENTIAL AREAS.
I WAS CURIOUS ABOUT THAT BECAUSE I WAS TRYING TO THINK WHERE DO WE HAVE IN THE CITY THAT FITS ALL OF THAT.
UM, SO, AND THIS IS ONLY FOR EXISTING BUSINESSES TO RELOCATE.
THIS ISN'T A NEW BUSINESS WANTING TO START UP.
COULD FOLLOW THESE, THEY'D HAVE TO FOLLOW ALL THIS, WHICH WOULD MEAN A NEW BUSINESS WANTING TO HAVE A SMOKE SHOP OR A TOBACCO SHOP WOULD HAVE TO BASICALLY LOCATE IN PARKWAY PLAZA AND TAKE ONE OF VERY FEW OPPORTUNITIES TO DO SO.
SO REALLY THE INTENT IS TO MAKE SURE THAT, YOU KNOW, IF A, A SHOPPING CENTER WANTS TO REDEVELOP, THERE IS AN OPPORTUNITY FOR THAT SUCCESSFUL BUSINESS THAT'S BEEN OPERATING FOR, FOR 20 YEARS TO BE ABLE TO FIND A NEW LOCATION AS LONG AS THEY DIDN'T WORSEN THEIR CONDITIONS.
OKAY, I UNDERSTAND THAT AND I APPRECIATE THAT.
UH, MOVE, UNLESS THERE'S NO OTHER SPEAKER CARDS, I'LL MOVE THE CLOSED PUBLIC UH, COMMENT.
WE ALREADY CLOSED PUBLIC COMMENT.
DID, YEAH, WE DID ALREADY CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING, BUT I WOULD ASK, UH, FOLLOWING DELIBERATIONS AND GUIDANCE TO STAFF, IF YOU COULD, UH, REOPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING AND THEN WE'LL
[00:55:01]
NEED TO CONTINUE IT, UH, TO OCTOBER 7TH.YOU WANNA REOPEN IT, UH, AFTER THE COMMISSION CONTINUE, FINISH THEIR DELIBERATIONS.
BEFORE WE DO THAT, AND I'M LOOKING AT THE OPTIONS, WE'RE NOT REALLY, IT'S NOT REALLY ADDRESSING SO MUCH IS THE RELOCATIONS, IT LOOKS LIKE WHAT'S JUST TALKING ABOUT THE DISPLAYS ITSELF TONIGHT? WELL THE RELOCATION IS THE SECOND PART.
SO THERE'S TWO THINGS WE'RE DISCUSSING.
ONE IS THE DISPLAY AREA, THE OTHER ONE IS THE ABILITY TO RELOCATE.
AND THOSE ARE BOTH, WE'RE GONNA PROVIDE THEM WITH FEEDBACK AND THEN THEY'LL COME BACK.
SO WE SAY, WELL WE TALKED ABOUT DOING PERCENTAGE WITH THE MAXIMUM CAPACITY, BUT WE DIDN'T TALK ABOUT WHAT THAT CAPACITY WOULD BE.
AND UH, THAT'S SOMETHING THAT I WOULD PROBABLY ASK FOR MORE PUBLIC FEEDBACK IN THE NEXT PUBLIC HEARING, RIGHT.
WHERE WE'D BE LIKE, I KNOW WE GOT A SUGGESTION OF 500 SQUARE FEET AND BARRING THE VERY LARGE HOOKAHS, THAT DOES SOUND LIKE A LOT OF SPACE SINCE THAT'S FLOOR SPACE, NOT CUBICS SPACE.
UM, BUT MAYBE WE COULD HAVE SOME SUGGESTIONS FROM STAFF ON WHAT, WHAT A GOOD MAXIMUM CAPACITY WOULD BE, MAXIMUM AREA.
UM, BECAUSE I DON'T HAVE A GRASP OF RETAIL FLOOR SPACE, THAT'S NOT MY EXPERTISE.
I CAN TELL YOU HOW MANY ROUND TABLES WILL FIT IN THERE, BUT
UM, BUT I, I THINK HAVING A CERTAIN PERCENTAGE AND WE DIDN'T TALK ABOUT WHAT THAT PERCENTAGE MIGHT BE.
I KNOW YOU MENTIONED 3% AT ONE POINT.
UM, SO I THINK I'M JUST SAYING, I'M NOT SURE THAT I HAVE A PERCENTAGE THAT I WOULD BE SAYING YES, THIS IS THE PERCENTAGE AND I DON'T ALSO KNOW WHAT THE MAXIMUM CAPACITY WOULD BE.
I THINK THAT FOR HOOKAHS HAVING 16 SQUARE CUBIC FEET DIMINISHES THEIR ABILITY TO DISPLAY.
AND SO I WANT TO BE MINDFUL OF THAT.
AT THE SAME TIME, I ALSO WANT TO BE MINDFUL OF NOT HAVING GINORMOUS WALLS OF DISPLAY FOR KIDS TO GO, OOH, I WONDER WHAT THAT DOES
SO, UH, I'M NOT SURE IF I'M PROVIDING DIRECTION OR IF I'M JUST GABBING RIGHT NOW.
UM, I THINK WE NEED TO BE, I THINK IT'S VERY DISPROPORTIONATE TO HAVE A HOOKAH TO, TO A CIGARETTE BOX.
I DON'T THINK THAT REALLY WORKS.
I THINK THAT I AGREE WITH YOU 100%.
GO AND BUY A PERCENTAGE WITH A CAP, RIGHT? MM-HMM
UM, BUT WHAT ABOUT THE SECOND PART? THE, TO HER POINT OF THE RELOCATION? THE RELOCATION, IT'S AN IMPROVEMENT.
I MEAN, RIGHT NOW SOME OF THESE ARE JUST AROUND, NOT EVEN A BLOCK FROM RESIDENTIAL AREAS AND THEY'RE STUCK THERE.
THEY DON'T HAVE THE OPTION OF PACKING UP AND MOVING SOMEWHERE ELSE.
AND THEN THE POINT OF MY ASKING WHERE FITS ALL THE QUALIFICATIONS, REALLY IT'S PARKWAY PLAZA.
SO THIS WOULD ALLOW THEM TO MOVE FARTHER AWAY FROM RESIDENTIAL AND SENSITIVE AREAS AND EXPAND THEIR BUSINESS WITHOUT GOING DEEPER INTO RESIDENTIAL AREAS OR HAVING TO BE IN PARKWAY PLAZA.
I DON'T THINK WE WANT PARKWAY PLAZA TO BE THE HOOKAH KING CAPITAL OR TOBACCO CAPITAL OR WHATEVER.
AND WE ALREADY HAVE THE UH, THOUSAND FOOT AWAY FROM ANOTHER BUSINESS.
SO I THINK THIS IS A GOOD, UM, ALLOWANCE FOR THOSE EIGHT BUSINESSES THAT HAVE CS THAT ARE CURRENTLY LOCKED IN TO TOO CLOSE.
IF THEY DECIDE THAT IT'S WORTHWHILE TO MOVE, THEY CAN FIND A BETTER SPOT EVEN IF IT'S NOT THE BEST SPOT.
I KNOW, I, THEY SAID THE 3% AND KIND OF TAKING THAT INTO ACCOUNT A SEVEN 11.
THAT'S, IF THEY'RE A THOUSAND SQUARE FEET, THAT'S 30 SQUARE FEET, IT'S REALLY NOT MUCH BIGGER THAN THEY HAVE ALREADY.
PLUS A LOT OF TIMES THEIR COUNTERS ARE IN THE MIDDLE, SO YOU WOULDN'T WANNA GO MUCH BIGGER 'CAUSE YOU GOTTA SEE WHO'S TAKING STUFF FROM THE LIQUOR CABINET BEHIND THERE.
SO I DON'T THINK IT, IT'LL MAKE MUCH DIFFERENCE IN THOSE INSTANCES.
BUT REGARDING LIKE A GROCERY STORE OR SOMETHING THAT ARE IN EL CAJON WHERE THEY HAVE, YOU KNOW, 10,000 SQUARE FEET, I DON'T THINK THEY'RE THAT BIG.
WELL LET'S JUST SAY 5,000 SQUARE FEET, THAT'S A MUCH BIGGER AREA, BUT THEN THEY'RE ALWAYS BEHIND CUSTOMER SERVICE.
SO HOW MUCH CAN THEY REALLY MAKE BIGGER? MM-HMM.
[01:00:01]
THEY COULD MAKE A CUSTOMER SERVICE COUNTER BIGGER, BUT LOGISTICALLY SPEAKING, I DON'T THINK THIS IS GONNA MAKE A HUGE DIFFERENCE IN DISPLAY UNLESS SOMEONE WANTS TO BE REALLY CREATIVE.NOW THE MOVEMENT OF THE STORE IS JUST 'CAUSE THERE'S NOT A LOT OF PLACES THAT WILL BE AN IMPROVEMENT AND WILL BE ECONOMICALLY VIABLE.
YOU KNOW, LET'S GO BY THE AIRSTRIP.
LIKE, I, I DON'T KNOW HOW MANY PEOPLE ARE GONNA DRIVE BY THE AIRSTRIP BECAUSE IT'S FARTHER AWAY FROM HOMES, BUT IT'S NOT REALLY SOMEWHERE SOMEONE'S GONNA GO DRIVE BY TO GO GET THEMSELVES SOME HOOKAH OR SOME CIGARETTES.
UM, BUT IT DEFINITELY IS AN IMPROVEMENT.
I JUST DUNNO THE VIABILITY OF IT, LIKE HOW MANY PEOPLE ARE GONNA ACTUALLY MOVE.
UM, BUT THAT'S MY ONLY CONCERN IS, I MEAN, HOW MANY PEOPLE ACTUALLY, IS THIS ALL 97 OR JUST THE EIGHT THAT COULD MOVE? OR, OR HOW, HOW DOES THAT FACTOR IN IT? IT WOULD ONLY BE THE EIGHT THAT ARE APPROVED BY CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT THAT COULD RELOCATE.
MAYBE A COUPLE OF THEM WILL MOVE.
MY FINAL QUESTION, IS THERE A DISTINCTION BETWEEN, YES, WE HAVE TO BE AT THE COUNTER, BUT I HAVE SEEN, AND I'M NOT SAYING WHAT CD I'VE SEEN THEM IN, THAT THEY'RE ON THE COUNTER, UH, THAT DOESN'T PROTECT KIDS.
IT DOES TO ME THAT THE SPIRIT OF THE, THE ORDINANCE IS THAT'S, THAT'S SKEWING THE LINES.
IT, IS THERE A DISTINCTION THAT IT HAS TO BE BEHIND THE COUNTER OR ARE THEY ALLOWED TO PUT THEM ON THE COUNTER BECAUSE KIDS
I DON'T NECESSARILY THINK THAT THAT'S WITH EVERY BUSINESS.
MATTER OF FACT I'M ALMOST POSITIVE.
BUT IS THERE A DISTINCTION BETWEEN ON THE COUNTER AND BEHIND? UM, IT CAN'T BE SELF-SERVE.
SO, UM, SO YOU SHOULDN'T BE ABLE TO ACCESS IT, UH, YOURSELF.
YOU SHOULD NEED A, AN EMPLOYEE FROM THE STORE TO BE ABLE TO GET THE PRODUCT AND SCAN IT FOR SALE AND THEN GIVE IT TO YOU.
SO THE TECHNICALLY IT SHOULDN'T BE ON THE COUNTER UNLESS IT WAS A, A LARGE COUNTER WHERE IT'S NOT ACCESSIBLE.
THAT WAS MY FINAL QUESTION SINCE THIS ISN'T, WE PROVIDED FEEDBACK, BUT IS THERE AN ACTION ITEM OTHER THAN THAT? THAT'S, I THINK IT WOULD BE HELPFUL IF WE COULD HAVE A MOTION, UH, TO REOPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING, UH, CONTINUE THE PUBLIC HEARING TO, UH, THE, UH, NEXT PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING, AND THEN TO, UM, FORMALLY, UM, GUIDE STAFF TO, UM, MOVE FORWARD WITH A PERCENTAGE, UM, OF THE, UM, RETAIL SQUARE FOOTAGE WITH A CAP AND, AND WITH, WITH A CAP.
AND THEN WE CAN FURTHER EXPLORE THAT AS WE DIVE DEEPER INTO THE CODE UPDATES AND MAYBE, UM, UH, WORK WITH, UH, SOME OF THE SPEAKERS, UH, WHO HAD SOME CONCERNS ABOUT THE SQUARE FOOTAGE IN CAP AND LOOK AT, UM, SOME MORE OF THE SPECIFIC LOCATIONS WHERE, UM, THIS MIGHT COME INTO PLAY SO THAT THERE'S MORE INFORMATION FOR THE COMMISSION TO CONSIDER AT THE NEXT HEARING.
DO I HAVE A SECOND? I'LL SECOND.
MOTION BY COMMISSIONER EDISON.
SECOND BY PUBLIC ROOT PLEASE VOTE.
MOTION CARRIES BY UNANIMOUS VOTE OF MEMBERS PRESENT.
DO WE NEED A SECOND MOTION TO CONTINUE THE PUBLIC HEARING OR WAS THAT ROLLED INTO IT?
CAN I ASK ONE MORE QUICK QUESTION REGARDING THESE SITES? DO WE HAVE LIKE AN AVERAGE SQUARE FOOTAGE? BECAUSE IF WE'RE TAKING IN PERCENTAGE OF SQUARE FOOTAGE, DO WE KNOW, LIKE GENERALLY WHAT THE SQUARE FOOTAGE IS OF MOST OF THESE PLACES? 'CAUSE IF THEY'RE ALL SMALL, THEN I THINK THE THREE OR 5% SEEMS FEASIBLE, YOU KNOW, DEPENDING ON THE SITE.
I KNOW THEY HAVE A LARGER STORE THAT'S 4,500 SQUARE FEET, BUT HOW MANY OF THESE LOCATIONS WHERE THEY SELL THESE SMOKE ITEMS ARE LARGER STORES? ARE THEY ALL JUST SMALLER TYPE CONVENIENCE STORE TYPE THINGS? WE INSPECTED ALL OF THE TOBACCO RETAILERS TO ENSURE COMPLIANCE WITH THE CODE APPROXIMATELY A YEAR AGO, UH, TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY MET THE SIZE LIMITATIONS.
UM, WE DIDN'T TAKE INTO CONSIDERATION AN ANALYSIS OF, OF HOW MANY STORES ARE, ARE SEPARATE FROM KIND OF THE CONVENIENCE STORE MODEL.
UH, BUT I THINK BASED ON THE DIRECTION FROM THE COMMISSION, WE CAN, UH, LOOK INTO THAT AND COME BACK WITH KIND OF MORE INFORMATION ABOUT THAT WOULD BE HEALTH, THE KIND OF, UH, I WOULD CLAR CLASSIFY IT MAYBE AS THE MIDDLE AREA WHERE THERE'S SOME LARGER STORES LIKE CASH AND CARRY, WHICH SPOKE TONIGHT MM-HMM
UM, AND, UH, AND BRING THAT INFORMATION BACK FOR CONSIDERATION AT THE NEXT HEARING.
[01:05:01]
IS THERE ANY OTHER COMMUNICATIONS FROM STAFF? UH, NO OTHER COMMUNICATIONS FROM STAFF COMMISSIONERS?[6. COMMISSIONER REPORTS/COMMENTS]
I'VE QUESTIONS ON TWO PROPERTIES.UM, WELL, ONE'S A PROPERTY AND ONE'S A SET OF PROPERTIES.
UH, DO WE KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON WITH THE DEPARTMENT, TRANSPORTATION PROPERTIES, ALL THE CALTRANS PURCHASES THAT WERE FOR THE 54 FREEWAY ON RAMP? AND I KNOW THAT THE DEPARTMENT TRANSPORTATION CANCELED THAT PROJECT, BUT IT SEEMS LIKE CALTRANS IS STILL BUYING PROPERTIES.
DO WE KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON WITH THOSE? BECAUSE THEY KEEP MOWING THE FIELDS AND WE'VE GOT A LOT OF VACANT PROPERTIES IN THE CITY OF ELCON THAT ARE NOW OWNED BY CALTRANS THAT COULD BE DEVELOPED INTO LOTS OF HOUSES.
SO, UM, CALTRANS DOES, UH, STILL OWN MANY OF THOSE PROPERTIES.
UM, THEY HAVE BEEN SLOWLY TAKING THOSE TO AUCTION, UH, PERIODICALLY.
UM, SO, YOU KNOW, PROBABLY OVER A DECADE AGO THERE WAS THE PROPERTY BEHIND OUTBACK STEAKHOUSE WHERE THE PARK AND RIDE IS LOCATED.
UM, THAT ONE WAS SOLD AND THEN, UH, REDEVELOPED WITH HOUSING.
UM, I DID GET NOTIFICATION, UH, THIS PAST WEEK FOR, UM, TWO PROPERTIES, UH, THAT CALTRANS WILL BE AUCTIONING OFF, AND I'M TRYING TO LOOK UP THE DATE OF THE AUCTION.
UM, SO THE NOVEMBER 7TH AUCTION, UM, IS, INCLUDES TWO PROPERTIES.
UM, SO THE FIRST PROPERTY IS NEXT TO FIRE STATION, UH, EIGHT.
IT'S THE PROPERTY THAT EXTENDS BETWEEN, UM, OAKDALE AND MADISON.
THAT'S THE OLD MINI GOLF COURSE.
UM, SO, UH, IT'S A VERY IRREGULARLY SHAPED PROPERTY, BUT THAT ONE IS GOING TO AUCTION AND THEN AT, UH, THIRD AND UM, UH, ONE IN CLOSE PROXIMITY, UH, AT NORTH THIRD STREET AS WELL.
UM, SO THOSE ARE TWO PROPERTIES THAT ARE GOING OUT FOR AUCTION.
THEY JUST, THEY HAVEN'T DONE THEM ALL AT THE SAME TIME, AND SO THEY'VE JUST BEEN SLOWLY SELLING THE PROPERTIES, BUT THEY'RE NOT ACQUIRING ADDITIONAL PROPERTIES.
AND THEN, UH, THE OTHER QUESTION WAS, UH, HAVE WE HEARD ANYTHING MORE ON THE, UH, TOWN HOME DEVELOPMENT AT MAIN IN OAKDALE? I, I SAW THE, THEIR BUILDING, THEY'VE GOT THE FRAMES GOING UP FOR THE LITTLE FOUR HOUSES ON THAT CORNER.
BUT I HAVEN'T EVEN SEEN ANYBODY SURVEYING ACROSS THE STREET.
UH, THERE HAS NOT BEEN ANY NEW SUBMITTALS FOR THE PROPERTY, UM, ACROSS THE STREET.
UH, THE ONE THAT'S AT, UH, THE CORNER NEXT TO THE SCHOOL, UM, IS UNDER CONSTRUCTION.
GLAD I WASN'T THE ONLY ONE THAT REMEMBERED THE MINI GOLF COURT
ANYTHING OUT THERE FOR ANY OTHER COMMENTS.
MOTION CARRIED BY UNANIMOUS VOTE OF MEMBERS PRESENT.