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WELCOME TO THE EVENING SESSION OF THE CITY COUNCIL MEETING.
[ CALL TO ORDER: Mayor Bill Wells]
MEETING IS NOT CALLED THE ORDER AND I'D LIKE TO ASK OUR CITY CLERK TO CALL THE ROLE COUNCIL MEMBER.ALL OTHER COUNCIL MEMBERS ARE PRESENT.
WOULD YOU THEN PLEASE STAND FOR THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE OR REMAIN STANDING FOR A BRIEF MOMENT OF SILENCE? I PLEDGE ALLEGIANCE TO THE FLAG OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA AND TO THE REPUBLIC FOR WHICH IT STANDS, ONE NATION UNDER GOD, INDIVISIBLE, WITH LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR ALL.
DO YOU HAVE ANY AGENDA SHADOWS? MR MAYOR, WE HAVE NO CHANGES TO THE AGENDA.
BRINGS US TO PUBLIC COMMENT AT THIS TIME.
ANY PERSON MAY ADDRESS A MATTER WITHIN THE JURISDICTION OF THE CITY COUNSEL HOUSING AUTHORITY SUCCESSOR AGENCY TO THE OKLAHOMA RITA REDEVELOPMENT AGENCY THAT IS NOT ON THE AGENDA.
COMMENTS RELATED TO ITEMS ON TODAY'S AGENDA ARE TO BE TAKEN AT THE TIME THE ADAM IS HEARD.
STATE LAW PROHIBITS DISCUSSION OR ACTION ON ITEMS NOT ON THE AGENDA.
HOWEVER, COUNCIL AUTHORITY AND AGENCY MEMBERS MAY BRIEFLY RESPOND TO STATEMENTS OR QUESTIONS AND AN ITEM MAY BE PLACED ON A FUTURE AGENDA.
ANGELA, DO WE HAVE ANY CARDS THAT ARE PUBLIC COMMENT? NO SIR.
[100. Shadow Mountain Residential Subdivision - General Plan Amendment No. 2017-03, Zone Reclassification No. 2327, Amendment of Specific Plan No. 523, and Tentative Subdivision Map No. 670. RECOMMENDATION: That the City Council: 1. Opens the public hearing and receives testimony; 2. Closes the public hearing; 3. Moves to ADOPT the next resolution, in order, APPROVING the Mitigated Negative Declaration and Mitigation Monitoring and Reporting Program; 4. Moves to ADOPT the next resolution, in order, APPROVING General Plan Amendment No. 2017-03; 5. Moves to INTRODUCE the next ORDINANCE, in order, approving Zone Reclassification No. 2327; 6. Moves to INTRODUCE the next ORDINANCE, in order, approving the amendment to Specific Plan No. 523; and 7. Moves to ADOPT the next resolution, in order, APPROVING Tentative Subdivision Map No. 670.]
WE'RE IN OUT PUBLIC HEARING SO I DIDN'T WANT, HUNTER IS REGARDING THE SHADOW MOUNTAIN RESIDENTIAL SUBDIVISION.STEPHANIE, PLEASE TELL US ABOUT THIS.
I'M THE CITY'S PROJECT MANAGER PLANNING MANAGER.
MOST OF THE DIVINE WILL PRESENT THE PROJECT TO THE COUNCIL.
GOOD EVENING MAYOR AND COUNCIL MEMBERS TODAY BEFORE YOU AS THE SHADOW MOUNTAIN RESIDENTIAL SUBDIVISION PROJECT AS PROPOSED BY THE SHADOW MOUNTAIN COMMUNITY CHURCH, WHICH IS REPRESENTED BY BY PASTOR BRIAN SNOW THIS EVENING.
THE PROPOSED PROJECT INCLUDES A GENERAL PLAN AMENDMENT AS OWN RECLASSIFICATION AND AMENDMENT TO THE SPECIFIC PLAN GOVERNING THE SHADOW MOUNTAIN COMMUNITY CHURCH.
ANY TENTATIVE SUBDIVISION MAP FOR A COMMON INTEREST SUBDIVISION IN ACCORDANCE WITH SECA, THE SEQUEL, A MITIGATED NEGATIVE DECLARATION AND MITIGATION MONITORING AND REPORTING PROGRAM WERE PREPARED.
THE SITE IS LOCATED ON EAST MADISON AVENUE NEAR THE INTERSECTION OF EAST MADISON AND GREENFIELD.
THE TWO PARCELS ARE A NON-CONTIGUOUS ARE SEPARATED BY EAST MADISON.
UH, THE NORTH PARCEL IS 3.5 ACRES AND THE SOUTH PARCEL OUTLINED BOTH IN WHITE IS 4.66 ACRES.
THE NORTH PARCEL IS DEVELOPED WITH A SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENCE AND THE SOUTH PARCEL IS VACANT AND ACCESS EASEMENT DOES RUN ACROSS THE NORTH PARCEL ALONG THE EASTERN BOUNDARY AND PROVIDES ACCESS TO A PROPERTY LOCATED IN UNINCORPORATED SAN DIEGO COUNTY.
THE NORTH PARCEL HAS A GENTLE SLOPE, SLOPES UPWARD FROM THE EAST MADISON AVENUE AND THE SOUTH PARCEL HAS A NULL AND IT'S SO IT SLOPES FROM THE SEMINARY PROPERTY TO THE EAST TOWARDS THE BOWKER SUBDIVISION TO THE WEST AND ALSO NORTH TOWARDS MADISON AND SOUTH TOWARDS THE PARKING LOT.
THE GENERAL PLAN DESIGNATES THE NORTH PARCEL FOR PAROCHIAL SCHOOL AND THE SOUTH PARCEL FOR LOW LOW DENSITY RESIDENTIAL.
THIS IS INTENDED TO ACCOMMODATE APPROXIMATELY ZERO TO THREE DWELLING UNITS PER ACRE.
THE PROPERTIES ARE ZONED R S
THE PROPERTY TO THE SOUTH IS ALSO LOCATED IN THE HILLSIDE OVERS OVERLAY ZONE, WHICH IS INTENDED TO CONSERVE THE AESTHETIC QUALITIES OF HILLSIDES AND MINIMIZE ANY LAND FORM HAZARDS DUE TO GRADING.
THE TWO PROPERTIES ARE SURROUNDED BY LOWER DENSITY RESIDENTIAL USES.
AS YOU CAN SEE IN THE EXHIBIT HERE, UM, THE PREDOMINANT ZONING EAST OF GRANITE HILLS DRIVE IS RS S 20 ALTHOUGH THERE IS SOME
UM, AND THIS IS CHARACTERIZED BY LARGER RESIDENTIAL LOTS WITH A MORE SUBURBAN PATTERN OF DEVELOPMENT.
THE PROJECT REQUEST INCLUDES A GENERAL PLAN AMENDMENT FROM THE PAROCHIAL SCHOOL DESIGNATION ON THE NORTH PARCEL TO THE LOW LOW DENSITY RESIDENTIAL LAND USE DESIGNATION.
THIS IS CONSISTENT WITH THE SURROUNDING LAND USE IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD.
THERE'S ALSO A ZONE RECLASSIFICATION FROM THE EXISTING RS 20 ZONE TO THE RS 14 ZONE, WHICH IS A SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENTIAL ZONE, MINIMUM 14,000 SQUARE FOOT LOT SIZES.
AND THE HILLSIDE OVERLAY ZONE IS
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PROPOSED TO BE RETAINED ON THE SOUTH PARCEL.THE PROPOSED RS 14 ZONE IS COMPATIBLE WITH THE LOW LOW DENSITY RESIDENTIAL LAND USE DESIGNATION.
UM, THE DEVELOPMENT STANDARDS ARE IDENTICAL IN BOTH ZONES.
THE PRIMARY DIFFERENCE BEING ABOUT 6,000 SQUARE FEET OF LOT AREA, WHICH IS USUALLY ACCOMMODATED IN REAR YARDS.
ANOTHER PART OF THE PROPOSAL IS THE AMENDMENT TO THE SPECIFIC PLAN GOVERNING THE SHADOW MOUNTAIN CAMPUS.
AS YOU CAN SEE HERE IN THE EXHIBIT ON THE LEFT IS THE EXISTING SHADOW MOUNTAIN MASTER PLAN, WHICH SHOWS THE TWO PROPERTIES IN QUESTION LABELED.
THERE IS THE NORTH CAMPUS WHICH WAS INTENDED TO ACCOMMODATE AN ELEMENTARY SCHOOL AND A PORTION OF THE WEST CAMPUS, WHICH IS SHOWN AS PLANNED FOR SIX SINGLE FAMILY DETACHED RESIDENCES.
THE EXHIBIT TO THE RIGHT SHOWS THE PROPOSED REMOVAL OF BOTH OF THOSE PROPERTIES FROM THE CAMPUS MASTER PLAN.
ALL THE ACTIVITIES OF THE CHURCH AND SCHOOL CAN BE ACCOMMODATED ON THE EXISTING FACILITIES.
THESE WERE INTENDED MORE TO BE ANCILLARY USES FOR THE CAMPUS.
THE PROJECT HAS BEEN DESIGNED IS A COMMON INTEREST SUBDIVISION.
THE PRIMARY DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A COMMON INTEREST SUBDIVISION AND A STANDARD SUBDIVISION IS THE PROVISION OF PRIVATE STREETS IN LIEU OF PUBLIC STREETS.
UM, WE RECENTLY WITHIN THE LAST FEW YEARS HAVE ADOPTED A NEW COMMON INTEREST SUBDIVISION ORDINANCE, WHICH DOES ALLOW FOR THIS TYPE OF SUBDIVISION.
WE'VE SEEN WITH MORE INFILL PROJECTS THAT NEED TO CONSERVE LAND AREA THAT'S DEDICATED TO THINGS LIKE ACCESS.
AND WHEN YOU HAVE PRIVATE STREETS YOU REDUCE ONGOING COSTS AND MAINTENANCE FOR THE CITY.
UM, AND ALLOW FOR DEVELOPERS TO HAVE A LITTLE MORE FLEXIBILITY WITH HOW THEY DESIGN THEIR SUBDIVISIONS ESSENTIALLY.
UH, SO HERE WE HAVE PRIVATE STREETS AND COMMON FACILITIES.
UM, THE COMMON FACILITIES WOULD, WOULD INCLUDE UH, STORM WATER BASINS, LANDSCAPE AREAS, SIDEWALKS AS WELL AS THE STREETS.
AND WE'LL BE, WE'LL BE REQUIRING THE ESTABLISHMENT OF A HOMEOWNERS ASSOCIATION.
THIS HOMEOWNERS ASSOCIATION WILL MAINTAIN ALL OF THAT COMMON INFRASTRUCTURE AND CC AND RS WILL ENSURE COMPLIANCE WITH ALL OF THE REQUIREMENTS, THE CODES, COVENANTS AND RESTRICTIONS GOVERNING THE PROPERTY.
THE APPLICANT HAS ALSO PROVIDED SOME ARCHITECTURAL CONCEPTS TO ILLUSTRATE THE QUALITY OF DEVELOPMENT THAT THEY'RE PROPOSING.
AND SO WE HAVE INCORPORATED WITHIN THE CONDITIONS OF APPROVAL, THE REQUIREMENT THAT THE FUTURE DEVELOPMENT AND COMPLY WITH THESE CONCEPTS.
AND THEN LASTLY, I'LL NOTE BECAUSE THIS IS NOT A PLAN UNIT DEVELOPMENT OR A PLANNED RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENT, WE HAVE STRUCTURED THE APPROVALS SO THAT THE CONDITIONS OF APPROVAL ARE REQUIRED PRIOR TO FINAL MAP BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE AN ONGOING ENTITLEMENT LIKE A PUD OR PRD TO ENSURE COMPLIANCE WITH THOSE CONDITIONS OF APPROVAL.
WE'RE VERIFYING THAT THEY HAVE BEEN COMPLETED ITEMS LIKE A SEWER STUDY PRIOR TO FINAL MAP.
THIS EXHIBIT SHOWS THE NORTH PARCEL, UM, OF THEIR PROPOSED TENTATIVE SUBDIVISION MAP.
UM, THERE IS AN EXISTING SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENCE ON LOT 11, WHICH YOU'LL SEE IN THE CORNER.
UM, THERE ARE NINE LOTS PROPOSED ON THIS NORTH SIDE AND THE LOTS DO RANGE IN SIZE FROM ABOUT 10,800 SQUARE FEET TO 17,582 SQUARE FEET, UH, THROUGH THE LA AVERAGING PROVISIONS IN OUR MUNICIPAL CODE.
UM, YOU ARE ABLE TO VARY THE SIZE OF THE LOTS AS LONG AS THE MINIMUM OF HALF OF THOSE MEET THE REQUIREMENT FOR LOT SIZE.
SO ALL OF THE, THE AVERAGE LOT SIZE IN THIS SIDE OF THE SUBDIVISION IS 14,266 SQUARE FEET.
AND ONLY THREE OF THE LOTS ARE LESS THAN THE MINIMUM 14.
UM, THE PRIVATE STREET AS YOU'LL SEE HERE IS ALIGNED WITH THAT ACCESS EASEMENT, PROVIDING ACCESS TO THE PROPERTY OWNERS IN THE COUNTY, UM, THAT HAVE THE BENEFIT OF THAT EASEMENT.
AND THERE IS A BUY A RETENTION BASIN LOCATED ON AN HOA LOT.
UH, THERE IS BALANCE CUT AND FILL PROPOSED AND THE LOTS DO STEP DOWN FROM THE NORTH EAST CORNER TO THE SOUTHWEST CORNER.
THE SOUTH PARCEL WOULD CONTAIN 10 RESIDENTIAL LOTS, UM, WITH AN AVERAGE LOT SIZE OF 14,122 SQUARE FEET.
ALL OF THE LOTS ON THE SOUTH SIDE DO MEET THE MINIMUM 14,000 SQUARE FOOT LOT SIZE REQUIREMENT.
THERE ARE TWO BIO RETENTION BASINS PROPOSED
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TO PROVIDE FOR THE CAPTURE AND TREATMENT OF STORM WATER.AND THE PRIVATE STREET IS LOCATED ALONG THE WESTERN SIDE OF THE SUBDIVISION TO PROVIDE UM, A BUFFER TO THE PRECURSOR SUBDIVISION TO THE WEST.
AND THERE WILL BE A MASONRY WALL THAT IS CONSTRUCTED ALONG THE PERIMETER OF THE SUBDIVISION WITH THE EXCEPTION OF THE STEEP HILLSIDE AREA ADJACENT TO THE SEMINARY PROPERTY THAT WILL PROVIDE PRIVACY FOR BOTH PROPERTY OWNERS ON THE PROPOSED SUBDIVISION.
THE EXISTING NEIGHBORS AT BALANCE CUT AND FILL IS ALSO PROPOSED ON THIS SIDE OF THE SUBDIVISION BECAUSE THIS PROPERTY IS IN THE HILLSIDE OVERLAY, IT MUST COMPLY WITH THE DEVELOPMENT STANDARDS THAT LIMIT GRADING.
THE CONCEPTUAL GRADING PLAN SHOWS THAT THEY'RE USING SLOPES, SMALL RETAINING WALLS, AND THEY'RE STEPPING PADS AS WELL AS STEPPING WITHIN THE PADS TO BETTER MATCH THE EXISTING TOPOGRAPHY.
TWO REPRESENTATIVE ARCHITECTURAL CONCEPTS HAVE BEEN PROVIDED.
THE FIRST IS A SPANISH STYLE AND HERE YOU'LL SEE DEPICTED A ONE AND TWO STORY CONCEPT, UH, WITH CONCRETE TILE ROOF, STUCCO FINISHES, AND THESE ARE ACCENTED WITH TILE, WOOD, DETAIL AND TRIM.
THE SECOND IS A CRAFTSMAN INSPIRED CONCEPT, UM, WITH SIMILAR ACCENTS LIKE STONE VENEER, UM, WHAT TRIM AND SHUTTERS MITIGATED.
NEGATIVE DECLARATION WAS PREPARED AND COMPLIANCE WITH CALIFORNIA ENVIRONMENTAL QUALITY ACT, WHICH INDICATED THAT THERE WERE POTENTIAL IMPACTS THAT COULD BE MITIGATED TO A LEVEL OF LESS THAN SIGNIFICANCE.
THERE ARE MITIGATION MEASURES INCLUDED AND MADE AS CONDITIONS OF APPROVAL FOR THE PREPARATION OF A CONSTRUCTION NOISE PLAN.
I TRAFFIC CONTROL PLAN DURING CONSTRUCTION, A NESTING BIRD SURVEY.
THERE ARE ANY MATURE TREES REMOVED DURING THAT SEASON AS WELL AS NATIVE AMERICAN AND ARCHEOLOGICAL MONITORING DURING GRADING EXCAVATION.
IN RESPONSE TO THE INITIAL NOTICE OF APPLICATION, WE SENT OUT THE PROJECT IN 2017 WE HAVE RECEIVED A NUMBER OF EMAILS AND PHONE CALLS AND CORRESPONDENCE REGARDING THE PROJECT.
UM, THE ISSUES MOST COMMONLY CITED WERE THOSE REGARDING LACK OF COMPATIBILITY OF THE PROPOSED LAND USE AND ZONING WITH THE SURROUNDING NEIGHBORHOOD, THE AESTHETICS OF THESE LARGER HOMES ON SMALLER LOTS TRAFFIC AND PARKING CONCERNS, STORM WATER ISSUES AS WELL AS CONCERNS REGARDING PRIVACY VIEWS AND PROPERTY VALUES.
THE APPLICANT HAS ALSO CONDUCTED OUTREACH WITH THE NEIGHBORS.
THEY HAVE SENT SOME LETTERS AND HELD A COMMUNITY MEETING IN JANUARY OF 2018.
SINCE THAT TIME, THE APPLICANT HAS WORKED WITH STAFF TO REVISE THE PROJECT.
UM, ONE OF THE MOST NOTABLE CHANGES WAS THE ORIGINAL REQUEST WAS FOR THE RS NINE SO 9,000 SQUARE FOOT LOT ZONING AND A LOW DENSITY RESIDENTIAL LAND USE DESIGNATION.
THAT WAS CHANGED TO THE LOW LOW DENSITY RESIDENTIAL LAND USE DESIGNATION CONSISTENT WITH THE SURROUNDING NEIGHBORHOOD AND THE RS 14 ZONE, WHICH HAS CONSISTENT WITH THAT LAND USE DESIGNATION.
UM, OTHER CHANGES INCLUDE RELOCATING THAT PRIVATE STREET ON THE NORTH PARCEL, ADDING A MASONRY BOUNDARY WALL AND BUILDING A NEW BROW DITCH, UH, ADJACENT TO THE BROKER'S SUBDIVISION.
ON SEPTEMBER 3RD, THE PLANNING COMMISSION DID HOLD A PUBLIC HEARING FOR THE PROJECT AND DID RECEIVE PUBLIC TESTIMONY INCLUDING COMMENTS FROM ADJACENT NEIGHBORS AND PROPERTY OWNERS.
THE PLANNING COMMISSION WAS NOT ABLE TO MAKE A RECOMMENDATION TO THE CITY COUNCIL.
THEY WERE ESSENTIALLY SPLIT TO TWO WITH TWO OF THE COMMISSIONERS IN FAVOR AND TO OPPOSE TO THE LAND USE AND ZONING CHANGES.
AND SO IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE MUNICIPAL CODE, THAT PROJECT WAS FORWARD TO THE CITY COUNCIL.
STAFF'S RECOMMENDATION IS THAT CITY COUNCIL APPROVES THE PROJECT.
THE FUTURE DEVELOPMENT OF THESE SITES CONSISTENT WITH SURROUNDING RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOOD, UM, WILL PROVIDE MUCH NEEDED HOUSING OPPORTUNITIES IN THE CITY.
IN ORDER TO DO SO, WE DO RECOMMEND THAT YOU ADOPT THE NEXT RESOLUTIONS IN ORDER APPROVING THE MITIGATED NEGATIVE DECLARATION, THE GENERAL PLAN AMENDMENT, AND INTRODUCED THE NEXT ORDINANCES APPROVING THE ZONE RECLASSIFICATION SPECIFIC PLAN AMENDMENT AND THEN MOVE TO ADOPT THE NEXT RESOLUTION APPROVING THE TENTATIVE SUBDIVISION MAP.
LET ME SEE IF THE COUNCIL HAS SOME QUESTIONS FOR YOU.
UH, I READ IN THE BACKGROUND OF THIS SOMETHING ABOUT A RESTRICTION BY OTTO
WHAT CAN YOU TELL ME ABOUT THAT YOU DON'T HAVE ANY KNOWLEDGE REGARDING ANY RESTRICTIONS
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ON THE PROPERTY, UM, THAT WOULD PERTAIN TO THIS PROJECT.ANYTHING RECORDED, ANYTHING FILED WITH THE CITY THAT YOU FOUND OR NOTHING TO MY KNOWLEDGE.
UM, ANY TRAFFIC STUDIES DONE, THERE WAS A TRAFFIC ANALYSIS THAT WAS DONE AND SO THERE WAS A RECOMMENDATION TO INCLUDE STOP SIGNS, UM, AT THE ENTRANCE OF EACH SIDE OF THE PRIVATE STREET, WHICH ARE INCLUDED.
AND I THINK YOU MENTIONED PARKING CONCERNS.
UH, IS THERE NOT ENOUGH PARKING IN THE SUBURBS? PARKING WILL BE PROVIDED IN TWO CAR GARAGES THAT WILL BE REQUIRED FOR EACH FUTURE HOME AS WELL AS IN DRIVEWAYS AND ALONG THE PRIVATE STREET, ONE SIDE OF THE PRIVATE STREET ON THE SOUTH SIDE.
AND I ANY KIND OF PARKS OR UH, COMMUNAL LAND LIKE THAT, THERE'S NO ACTIVE RECREATION OF THAT.
THERE IS LANDSCAPE AREAS INCLUDING THOSE BIO RETENTION BASINS? NOPE.
NO POOLS, COMMUNITY POOLS OR, NO.
GARY, WHAT IS THE SQUARE FOOTAGE OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD TO THE WEST? THE SQUARE FOOTAGE RANGE FOR THE HOUSES.
SO HALF-ACRE, WELL, I'M TALKING ABOUT THE SQUARE FOOTAGE OF THE, OF THE HOUSE ITSELF.
I DO NOT HAVE THAT INFORMATION.
I'LL, I'LL MAYBE ASK, UH, SOME OF THE PEOPLE IN THE AUDIENCE A LITTLE BIT LATER ON THAT IT'S, IT'S IMPORTANT TO ME THAT EVERYTHING IS COMPATIBLE, THE DIRT SOMEWHAT SIMILAR.
AND THEN, UH, DO WE HAVE A, WELL, WE HAVE A SAY ON WHETHER THEY CAN BE A SINGLE STORY OR TWO STORY OR IS THAT WE'RE GOING DO THAT.
WE WOULD HAVE TO DO THAT LATER IF WE APPROVE IT TONIGHT SO THAT THE ZONING CODE DOES PERMIT FOR, YOU KNOW, TWO STORY RESIDENCES.
AND SO, UM, THERE ISN'T A RESTRICTION PROPOSED, BUT THE APPLICANT HAS SAID THEY'RE WILLING TO CONSIDER THAT.
AND IS THAT SOMETHING WE COULD DO TONIGHT? WE COULD INCLUDE THAT WITHIN THE, UH, CONDITIONS OF APPROVAL FOR THE CCNRS.
IF TONY, LET'S GO BACK TO THE SPECIFIC PLAN SLIDE ONE OF THE EARLIER MAPS.
ON THE LEFT HAND SIDE, IS THE, THE CURRENT SPECIFIC PLAN FIVE 23 AS IT IS TODAY? THAT'S CORRECT.
AND THE RIGHT HAND SLIDE IS THE PROPOSED UNDER THIS APPLICATION? THAT'S CORRECT.
SO THE LEFT HAND SLIDE, I SEE SIX HOMES THERE.
UH, DO YOU ALL, DO YOU SEE WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT? YES.
IN THAT CURRENT PLAN, SIX HOMES APPEAR TO BE UP AGAINST THE BOUNDARY OF THE PROJECT.
UM, THEY LOOK DIFFERENT THAN THE LOOK PROPOSAL OCCASIONS OF THE HOMES, WHICH I BELIEVE WOULD BE ACROSS THE STREET AND NOT UP AGAINST THE BOUNDARY.
IN OTHER WORDS, I'LL SAY THESE SIX HOMES ALMOST SHARE A BACKYARD WITH THE BROOKHURST NEIGHBORS.
WOULD I BE THINKING THAT UNDER THE SPECIFIC PLAN? THAT'S CORRECT.
AND UNDER THE PROPOSED PLAN, THE APPLICANT IS SAYING THEY WOULD BUFFER THAT WITH A STREET? YES.
SO THERE'S, THERE'S A RELOCATION OF THE HOMES TO THE OTHER SIDE OF THE STREET.
I JUST WANT TO UNDERSTAND MY, UH, BEARINGS HERE.
WE'VE ESSENTIALLY FLIPPED IT SO THAT THE STREET IS
I JUST WANTED TO UNDERSTAND, ARE WE STILL UP AGAINST THE BOUNDARY OF THE PROJECT OR, WE WERE AWAY.
THE PROPOSED IS AWAY FROM THE BOUNDARY.
ANYBODY ELSE? QUESTIONS? OKAY.
IS, IS THE WALL, UH, WEST OF THE STREET? YES.
HOW, HOW HIGH OF A WALL WOULD THAT? IT'D BE A SIX FOOT DECORATIVE MASONRY WALL AND, UH, ANY IMPLANTS ON, ON THE, ON THE SIDE OF THE WALL, EXCUSE ME.
ANY PLANTS, THERE ARE SHRUBS IN THE SIDE OF THE WALL, SO THEY'RE JUST NOT LOOKING AT A MASONRY LAW WALL.
UM, SO THE TYPICAL LANDSCAPING YOU WOULD FIND IN BACKYARD AREAS WOULD BE WHAT YOU WOULD EXPECT.
AND THEN ON THE, UM, ON THESE PROPOSED SUBDIVISION SIDE, THERE WOULD BE REQUIRED LANDSCAPING WHERE THERE IS NO SIDEWALK.
SO ON THE PARKWAY AREA IN BETWEEN THE TWO BIO RETENTION BASINS.
SO THEN IF PEOP PEOPLE DRIVING DOWN THE ROAD, THERE WOULDN'T BE HEADLIGHTS GOING TO PEOPLE'S BACKYARDS AND WINDOWS.
UH, THE SOUTH PARCEL, WHICH WE'RE LOOKING AT NOW, THAT IS THE SLOPE IS COMING DOWN FROM THE SEMINARY, I'LL CALL IT DOWN TOWARDS BROOKHURST.
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UH, CURRENTLY THE SPECIFIC PLAN ALLOWS FOR TWO STORY DORMITORY, I BELIEVE.YOU'D WANT TO GO BACK TO THE, I SEE THREE DORMITORIES THERE.
THOSE COULD BE TWO-STORY DORMITORIES, CORRECT? YES.
WHAT I'M GOING IS I'M CONCERNED ANYTIME SOMETHING'S BUILT AND YOU LOOK DOWN INTO A NEIGHBOR'S YARD.
SO THE CURRENT PLAN IS THEY COULD SELL THIS PROPERTY AND SOMEBODY TO ANOTHER INSTITUTION WHO COULD BUILD DORMITORIES AND ALL OF A SUDDEN THE BROKERS, PEOPLE HAVE A TWO STORY BUILDING LOOKING DOWN IN THEIR YARD.
SO THE CURRENT PLAN SPECIFIC PLAN ENTITLED TO THAT ALREADY, DOESN'T IT? IT DOES.
SO WE COULD SAY, YOU KNOW WHAT, BECAUSE YOU'RE ALREADY ON THE ELEVATION TO LIMIT YOU LOOKING DOWN INTO THE BROKERS SLOTS, WE'RE GOING TO RESTRICT THAT DEVELOPMENT TO ONE STORY.
IS THAT AN OPTION THAT WE HAVE? YES IT IS.
BUT THIS, WE'RE NOT APPROVING A FINAL PLAN THERE.
ANOTHER DEVELOPER WILL COME BACK TO US EVENTUALLY AND ASK US FOR UM, PER PERMISSION AS I HAVE THAT RIGHT AFTER APPROVAL, A POTENTIAL APPROVAL OF A TENTATIVE SUBDIVISION MAP THE PROJECT WE GO TO FINAL MAP AND AFTER THAT ONLY A BUILDING PERMIT WOULD BE REQUIRED TO DEVELOP.
SO YOU MADE AN EARLIER COMMENT THAT OFTEN THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN AN RS 20 LOT AND RS 14 LOT IS ABOUT 6,000 SQUARE FEET OF BACKYARD.
THAT IMPLIES THAT THE FRONTAGE OR THE WIDTH OF THE PROPERTY IS CLOSE TO THE SAME, THAT THE DIFFERENCES IN THE DEPTH.
WHAT CAN YOU TELL ME ABOUT THE CURRENT LOTS IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD, THE FRONTAGE SIZE VERSUS THE PROPOSED LOTS? IN OTHER WORDS, I'M SAYING, UH, IF THE CURRENT, UH, WITH IS 200 FEET WIDE UNDER MOST OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD AND THIS ONE IS PROPOSED AT 150 FOOT WIDE OR A HUNDRED FOOT WIDE, DO YOU HAVE ANY SENSE OF THOSE NUMBERS? SO, UM, IF, IF WE COULD BRING UP POTENTIALLY THE MUNICIPAL CODE, UM, AND WE CAN LOOK AT THE LOT DIMENSION REQUIREMENTS TOGETHER.
I THINK WHAT'S NOTABLE IS THAT THE SETBACKS, UM, THE HEIGHT LIMIT, THE LOT COVERAGE REQUIREMENT, ALL THE DEVELOPMENT STANDARDS ARE THE SAME IN THE
SO IF YOU'RE GOING ALONG THE STREET DEVELOPED WITH RS 20 OR RS 14, THE APPEARANCE AT THE STREET LEVEL WOULD BE RELATIVELY SIMILAR.
THE WOLF HAVE A 20 FOOT FRONT YARD SETBACK.
UM, SO I THINK THOSE FEATURES WILL BE VERY SIMILAR.
AND THEN, UM, IF WE GO TO THE RESIDENTIAL STANDARDS, AND SO FOR INSTANCE, YOU HAVE TO HAVE A
IF WE CAN ACTUALLY GO TO THE LOT REQUIREMENTS AND THE RESIDENTIAL RESIDENTIAL IN SECTION 60.
SO YOU'LL SEE THE, UM, THE FIRST COLUMN THERE.
THEN THE FIRST ONE, ACTUALLY THE SECOND COLUMN, YOU'RE GOING TO SEE A LOT.
UH, THAT SHOULD BE, IF YOU SCROLL UP JUST A MOMENT THERE YOU SCROLL UP.
SO YOU'LL SEE LOT WIDTH IN THE
SO APPROXIMATE DIFFERENCE OF 10 FEET.
THE LOT DEPTH IS THE SAME 90 FEET.
WELL, THE REQUIREMENTS, BUT WHAT IF BROOKHURST IS DEVELOPED TO 150 FEET? THEY EXCEED THE MINIMUM.
DO YOU HAVE A SENSE OF WHAT THE PROPOSED LOTS WITH OUR, UH, DID THE ARCHITECTURAL DRAWINGS SHOW WHAT THE WIDTH OF THESE LOTS ARE? THEY ATTENDED A SUBDIVISION MAP SHOWS THE WIDTH.
JOEL, I DON'T KNOW IF YOU HAVE THE ON YOU THE 90.
TYPICAL 90 FOOT WIDTH IS PROPOSED IN THE SUBDIVISION.
DO YOU KNOW HOW THAT COMPARES TO THE WIDTH OF THE CURRENT NEIGHBORHOODS? I DO NOT.
MORE QUESTIONS FOR THE COUNCIL.
I THINK WE'LL, I'LL LET YOU GO.
I'M GOING TO OPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING AND ASK ANDREW IF WE HAVE ANY SPEAKER CARDS, RIGHT? YES SIR.
THE FIRST ONE IS BRIAN SNOW OPPRESSOR SNOW.
I'M BRIAN STONE, EXECUTIVE PASTOR AT SHADOW MOUNTAIN COMMUNITY CHURCH.
UM, LIKE TO THANK YOU FOR HEARING OUR PROPOSAL TONIGHT.
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HAVE, UH, DEVELOPED THIS, UH, NEIGHBORHOOD, UH, WITHIN AN ATTEMPT TO, UH, MAXIMIZE BOTH THE VALUE OF THE PROPERTY FOR THE CHURCH AND HOPEFULLY, UH, CREATE A NEIGHBORHOOD THAT WOULD BE GOOD FOR BOTH THE EXISTING RESIDENTS AND THE SOON TO BE RESIDENTS OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD.UM, WE'VE, WE STARTED OFF WITH A QUARTER ACRE LOTS, GOT A LOT OF FEEDBACK FROM THE NEIGHBORS, SO THAT WAS NOT GOOD.
I WORKED WITH THE CITY, UM, TO, UH, TO CREATE A PRODUCT THAT WOULD BE, UM, BOTH BENEFICIAL FOR BOTH, BOTH USERS.
SO WE'RE, WE'RE PROUD OF THIS PLAN AND WE, I'M HERE TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS, QUESTIONS, ORIGINAL QUESTIONS ARE FOR YOU.
TONY, CAN YOU BRING UP, UH, MAYBE NOT THIS SUBDIVISION MAP, BUT MAYBE A AERIAL MAP OF THE SOUTH PARCEL, LIKE A GOOGLE EARTH MAP WITH THE BOUNDARY ON IT OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
UH, THERE'S ANOTHER MAP THAT HAS THE OUTLINE OF THE PARCELS OVERLAID ON THAT MAP.
MAYBE IT WAS ONE OF YOUR FIRST SLIDES.
UH, SO ONE OF MY QUESTIONS IS WHY DIDN'T YOU INCREASE THE LOT SIZE ON THE SOUTH PARCEL DEEPER UP TOWARDS THE SEMINARY HILL TO MAKE THOSE HALF ACRE LOTS? YOU KNOW, I'M GOING TO HAVE TO DEFER THAT TO JOEL, UH, THE ENGINEER BECAUSE, UM, I, I DON'T KNOW WHY.
I SAW IN 2017 YOU HAD AN INITIAL OUTREACH ON THE PROJECT.
I READ IN THE BACKGROUND THAT 17 NEIGHBORS FILED OBJECTION, 17 PART FIVE RESPONSES, 13 FILED OBJECTIONS.
AND THEN YOU WENT BACK TO THE NEIGHBORHOOD IN 2019 AT THE, BELIEVE YOU ISSUED A NOTICE IN JANUARY, 2019 SAYING, WE'VE GOT A NEW PLAN.
WE'RE GOING TO GO FROM 23 TO LESS THAN THAT.
BUT I DIDN'T SEE ANYTHING ABOUT HOW MANY NEIGHBORS RESPONDED, UH, WITH COMMON SEF THE SAME SEVENTEENS MORE OR LESS.
WELL, YOU KNOW, UM, WE, WE DIDN'T HAVE A, ANOTHER, UH, PUBLIC MEETING FOR THAT AND I'M NOT SURE.
I THINK MOST OF THE COMMENTS WERE DIRECTED TO THE CITY, NOT TO THE CHURCH.
UM, I CAN TELL YOU THAT THE PUBLIC KNEW THAT WE DID HAVE, WAS QUITE CONTENTIOUS AND FRANKLY, IT, UM, IT, IT DID NOT, UH, I FEEL LIKE IT WOULD BE PRODUCTIVE TO HAVE A SECOND ONE AFTER THE FIRST ONE.
UH, PROBABLY ONE OF THE BIG QUESTIONS IS WHY NOT MAKE THESE HALF ACRE LOTS? SURE.
UM, FEEDBACK THAT WE'VE GOTTEN FROM DEVELOPERS IN THE REGION IS THAT HALF ACRE LOTS ARE, ARE, UM, NOT AS MARKETABLE AND THEY'RE NOT AS IN DEMAND AS, AS SMALL LOTS.
SO, UH, WE, WE FRANKLY, WE WANTED TO MAXIMIZE THE VALUE OF THE PROPERTY FOR THE CHURCH.
SO WE WANTED TO INCREASE THE VALUE OF THAT WHILE STILL MAINTAIN, YOU KNOW, WE'RE, WE'RE SELLING IT AND STAYING.
SO WE CERTAINLY WANTED THIS TO BE NICE FOR US AS WELL BECAUSE, UM, I'M SURE THAT PLENTY OF PEOPLE WHO BUY IN THIS NEW NEIGHBORHOOD WILL, WILL BE, UM, INTERESTED IN SEEING THAT THE NEIGHBORHOOD STATE IN, IN THE GREAT CONDITION THAT IT'S CURRENTLY IN.
ON THE NORTH PARCEL, IT'S CURRENTLY ZONED TO BE A PAROCHIAL SCHOOL.
IF THIS ISN'T APPROVED, IS ONE OF YOUR OPTIONS TO SELL THAT PARCEL TO A CHARTER SCHOOL OR ANOTHER CHURCH? ABSOLUTELY.
COULD INDEED ALREADY JUST BUILD A SCHOOL THERE BECAUSE IT'S ENTITLED THAT WAY.
WE COULD BUILD A SCHOOL OR WE COULD SELL IT TO SOMEONE WHO COULD BUILD A SCHOOL.
UM, JUST FOR OUR CURRENT NEEDS, WE FELT LIKE THIS WOULD BE A BETTER, UH, SOLUTION.
BUT THAT'S ABSOLUTELY WHAT OUR PLAN WOULD BE IF, UH, IF THIS DOESN'T PASS.
DID WE WANT TO GET THE ENGINEER TO COME UP AND ANSWER THE FINISH ANSWERING THE QUESTION ABOUT, ABOUT GOING INTO THE SIDE OF THE HILL.
STEVE DID YOU WANT TO, HI, HOW ARE YOU? GOOD.
IT MAKES JOEY MARTIN WITH POLARIS FILM CONSULTANTS ON THE CIVIL ENGINEERING THE PROJECT.
I'M ALSO A MEMBER AT SHADOW MOUNTAIN COMMUNITY CHURCH.
UM, I HAVE A LITTLE PRESENTATION I'D LIKE TO GIVE, BUT IF YOU WANT ME TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTIONS FIRST, I CAN DO THAT OR WHICHEVER YOU I PREFER.
WELL, WHY DON'T WE GO AHEAD AND TAKE TACKLE THAT ONE QUESTION THAT STEVE HAD OF.
WHY NOT DIG FURTHER INTO THE SIDE OF THE HILL?
[00:30:01]
A KIND OF TWO REASONS.ONE THAT THE IT IS HILL, THE FURTHER BACK YOU GO, THE MORE GRADING YOU'RE DOING, THE MORE DISTURBANCES YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE.
WE PROBABLY WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO COME TO, UH, ADHERE TO THE, UH, GRADING REQUIREMENTS AS FAR AS HEIGHT LIMITS OF FILL SLOPES AND RETAINING WALLS.
SO THAT WAS A BIG CONSIDERATION.
THE SECOND ONE IS THAT THE LOT SIZE, THE RS 14 IS ALREADY EXISTING IN THAT NEIGHBORHOOD.
IT'S COMPATIBLE WITH THE GENERAL PLAN.
THERE'S LOTS, THERE'S EIGHT LOTS RIGHT DOWN THE STREET THAT ARE OURS.
SO WE HAD THE OPTION OF DOING ONE OR THE OTHER IN THAT A GENERAL PLAN DESIGNATION.
WE'RE CHOOSING OUR
SO JUST SO I UNDERSTAND, YOU JUST DIDN'T DEEPEN A LOT BACK, UH, JUST BE, AND IT'S JUST CAUSE YOU WANTED RS 14, AND THIS IS THE BOUNDARY THAT YOU WANTED.
I HEAR WHAT YOU'RE SAYING, GRADING, BUT COULD YOU HAVE LEFT THE LAW AT ITS NATURAL SLOPE? UH, AND THE OWNER WOULD JUST HAVE A HILLSIDE BEHIND THEM ON THEIR LAWN.
YEAH, THERE'S A VERY MARKETABLE, THEY JUST BASICALLY HAVE SOME, YOU KNOW, UNUSABLE SPACE AND THEY'RE NOT GOING TO CLIMB UP THE SLOPE TO GO ON THIS, UH, YOU KNOW, AREA THAT THEY'RE NOT REALLY GONNA MAINTAIN.
AND IT'S JUST GONNA BE ENDED UP BEING AN EYESORE JUST TO GET EXTRA SQUARE FOOTAGE.
AND AS BRIAN MENTIONED, MOST OF THE BUILDERS, THE TWO BUILDERS I SPOKE WITH, THEY'RE NOT REALLY INTERESTED IN GETTING, UM, HALF ACRE LOTS.
THERE'S A HALF ACRE SUBDIVISION RIGHT DOWN THE STREET ACROSS FROM GRANITE HILLS HIGH SCHOOL THAT GOT APPROVED IN 2004.
THERE'S ONE A HOME FINISHED ON IT.
THERE'S A FEW OTHERS THAT ARE BEING BUILT BUT LARGELY IT'S UNDEVELOPED.
SO WHY WOULD THE BUILDER WANT TO COME IN AND PUT MORE HALF-ACRE LOTS THERE WHEN THERE'S SOME THAT AREN'T EVEN SELLING.
I THINK I WAS JUST GOING TO GET SOME OF THE HISTORIES AS FAR AS WHERE WE STARTED AND KIND OF WHY WE ENDED UP WHERE WE ARE NOW, WHICH A LITTLE BIT OF THAT WAS ALREADY SHARED.
BUT UH, THE PROJECT KINDA GOT STARTED WITH A NATIONAL BUILDER CAME IN AND DECIDED THEY WANT TO TRY AND DEVELOP THESE PROPERTIES.
THEY HAD THEIR ENGINEER DESIGN SOME 9,000 SQUARE FOOT LOTS.
WE'RE GOING TO GO FORWARD WITH THAT.
THINK KIND OF THE LAST MINUTE THEY DECIDED TO PULL OUT, THEY WEREN'T HAVING GOOD SUCCESS WITH SOME OF THEIR SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA SUBDIVISIONS.
THEY DECIDED TO PULL OUT OF THIS.
NOW THAT'S WHEN I GOT INVOLVED WITH CHURCH, ASKED ME IF I WOULD HELP THEM LOOK AT THE ENTITLEMENTS AND SO WE STUCK WITH THAT 9,000 SQUARE FOOT PLAN.
WE'VE TALKED WITH THE CITY, THEY SEEM SUPPORTIVE OF THAT AT THE TIME.
AS LONG AS THEY, YOU KNOW, WE PROVIDED GOOD ARCHITECTURE AND A REAL, A HIGH QUALITY PROJECT.
SO THAT WAS KIND OF OUR FIRST, UM, DESIGN WAS GOING WITH THAT 9,000 SQUARE FOOT, A LOT DESIGN.
WE SUBMITTED THAT TO THE CITY.
WE GOT SOME FEEDBACK FROM THEM THAT, UH, THEY DIDN'T FEEL LIKE THERE WAS SOMETHING THEY GONNA BE ABLE TO SUPPORT.
WE GOT FEEDBACK FROM THE NEIGHBORS AS WELL.
UH, ONE OF THE NEIGHBORS TO THE NORTH SAID THAT HE DIDN'T LIKE THAT WE WERE RELOCATING HIS, A EASEMENT, GOING TO HIS PROPERTY ON THE COUNTY, UH, IN A COUNTY AREA THERE.
SO WE REDESIGNED THE NORTHERLY SUBDIVISION SO THAT WE WOULDN'T HAVE TO RELOCATE THAT EASEMENT ON THE SOUTH SIDE.
SOME OF THE NEIGHBORS WEREN'T HAPPY THAT THERE WERE HOMES PROPOSED RIGHT AGAINST THE WESTERLY PROPERTY LINE THAT ARE GOING TO BE LOOMING OVER THEM LOOKING DOWN ON THE SUB ON THEIR SUBDIVISION.
SO WE MOVED THE STREET TO THE WEST SIDE, MOVED THE HOMES TO THE EAST SIDE.
SO THAT WAS ANOTHER ACCOMMODATION WE MADE.
THERE WAS ALSO ISSUES WITH THE UH, BROW DITCH AND THE EXISTING FENCE ON THE SOUTH SIDE ALONG THE, UH, WESTERLY PROPERTY LINE.
SO THAT'S ANOTHER CONCESSION WHERE THAT WAS MADE WAS THAT WE WILL BE PUTTING IN A NEW BOUNDARY WALL ALSO PUTTING IN A NEW BROW DITCH.
SO IN EFFECT, THE HOMEOWNERS ARE GETTING A LITTLE BIT OF AREA BACK.
THEY CAN REMOVE THAT BROW DITCH IF THEY LIKE.
THEY COULD REMOVE THEIR FENCE IF THEY LIKE, AND THEY HAD A LITTLE BIT MORE SPACE IF THEY WOULD CHOOSE TO DO ANYTHING WITH IT.
BUT IT'LL, THE WALL AND THE DITCH WILL BE MAINTAINED BY THE CHURCH NOW.
SO ANOTHER ADDED BENEFIT, BUT THE BIGGEST CHANGE WAS THAT WE WENT FROM THE 9,000 SQUARE FOOT LOTS TO THE FOURTEENS.
WE SAW THAT THERE WERE FOURTEENS IN THE AREA, THE
IT ACTUALLY HAS THREE LOTS THAT ARE 9,000 SQUARE FEET.
THEY'RE 9,200 THE AVERAGE FOR THOSE EIGHT LOTS IS ABOUT 12,000 SQUARE FOOT.
SO IT FEELS LIKE A, IT'S A GOOD MIX IN THERE.
WE'RE NOT, WE DON'T HAVE THE SMALLEST LOTS, WE DON'T HAVE THE BIGGEST LOTS, BUT WE FELT THAT IT WAS A GOOD COMPROMISE IN THERE.
SO WE HAVE SUBMITTED THE FOURTEENS AND THAT'S KIND OF WHERE WE'RE, WHERE WE'RE AT WITH THAT.
UM, FEW OF THE OTHER BENEFITS OF THE PROJECT WOULD BE WE'RE WIDENING MADISON AVENUE.
IT GETS A LITTLE TIGHT GOING THROUGH THERE NOW, ESPECIALLY WHEN GRANITE HILLS HIGH SCHOOL GETS OUT IN THE AFTERNOONS, YOU CAN ONLY GET ONE CAR GOING NORTH THERE THAT WE'RE GOING TO BE WIDENING THE STREET.
THEY'LL ABLE TO BE ABLE TO GET TWO CARS THROUGH THERE.
IT SHOULD ALLEVIATE SOME OF THE CONGESTION.
ALSO, WE'LL BE, UH, FINISHING THE SIDEWALK ON THE SOUTH SIDE OF THE STREET SO THAT YOU CAN GET FROM, UH, THE WEST SIDE OF THE SUBDIVISION ALL THE WAY UP TO GREENFIELD WALKING ON A SIDEWALK AND HAVE TO WALK ON THE STREET OR WALK ON THE DIRTY LONGER.
AND I WAS JUST GOING TO ANSWER THE QUESTION ABOUT THE BROOKHURST LOTS.
I LOOKED THAT UP JUST A MINUTE AGO.
ON THE ADJACENT TO OUR PROJECT, THE PUT CURSE LOTS TYPICALLY ARE A HUNDRED FEET TO 135 FEET.
WE HAD AVERAGE ABOUT A HUNDRED, 120 FEET.
OUR LOTS ON THAT, ON THE SOUTH SIDE OF THE SUBDIVISION AVERAGE 110 FEET.
SO IT'S A LITTLE BIT SMALLER, BUT BY 10 FEET IT ISN'T WHOLE LOT.
[00:35:01]
THE LAST THING I WAS GONNA SAY IF I HAVE ONE MORE MINUTE HERE WAS THAT THE, UM, PROJECTS HAD BEEN REVIEWED BY THE CITY PLANNING DEPARTMENT, THE FIRE DEPARTMENT, THE ENGINEERING DEPARTMENT.UH, THEY, THEY'RE ALL IN FAVOR OF THIS.
UH, WE THINK THAT WHAT WE ARE PROPOSING IS COMPATIBLE WITH EXISTING NEIGHBORHOOD.
WE'RE NOT ASKING FOR ANYTHING OTHER THAN WHAT THE GENERAL PLAN IS ALLOWING US TO PROPOSE.
AND UM, AGAIN, THERE'S HOMES IN THE AREA, LOTS IN THE AREA THAT ARE SIMILAR SIZE AND THERE'S SOME THAT ARE LARGER.
THERE'S SOME THAT ARE SMALLER.
WE THINK WE WERE A GOOD FIT RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE THERE.
AND UH, I'M AVAILABLE FOR ANY QUESTIONS IF YOU HAVE ANYTHING.
FAVORITE MOMENTS TO THE REQUEST OF STEVE? I SEEM TO HAVE THE QUESTIONS TONIGHT.
UH, THE BROW DITCH, JUST SO WE'RE ALL ON THE SAME PAGE.
WHAT'S A BROW DITCH FOR AND WHAT IS IT? SO THERE'S AN EXISTING DITCH ALONG ON THE PICTURE THERE.
IT'S KIND OF ON THE VERY SOUTH BOUNDARY THAT IS PICKING UP THE, IT'S A CONCRETE, UH, KIND OF USE SHAPED DITCH THAT'S PICKING UP THE RUNOFF FROM THE CHURCH PROPERTY.
UH, RIGHT NOW THAT, UH, IS ACTUALLY ON THE BROOKHURST DECIDE OF THE PROPERTY LINE AND THERE'S A FENCE ON THE, UH, EAST SIDE OF THAT OR MAYBE IT IS ON THE WEST SIDE.
EITHER WAY THAT'S GOING TO BE REMOVED RIGHT NOW.
IT'S, IT SHOULD BE THE RESPONSIBILITY OF THE BROOKHURST UH, PEOPLE TO BE MAINTAINING THAT.
AND I KNOW THERE'S BEEN SOME ISSUES ABOUT IF THE CHURCH IS GONNA MAINTAIN THAT.
AND THERE WAS, I DID SEE SOME SORT OF DOCUMENT THAT SAID THE CHURCH IS GOING TO MAINTAIN IT IN SOME AREAS OR NOT.
BUT WITH A SUBDIVISION IT IS GOING TO BE, THE DITCH WILL BE ON THE, UM, ON THE DEVELOPMENT SIDE OF THE PROPERTY AND THAT WILL BE UP TO THE HOA TO MAKE SURE THAT THAT'S MAINTAINED.
SO CURRENTLY THE BROW DITCH SITS ON BROOKHURST PROPERTY SUBDIVISION PROPERTY, IS THAT CORRECT? YES, YES.
AND SOME OF IT IS THAT RECORD SHOW.
IT'S ALL ON AT LEAST THE MAJORITY OF MAYBE AT THE VERY SOUTH, AND IT MIGHT BE DIFFERENT, BUT THE MAJORITY OF IT IS ON THE
SO, UH, DO THE BROOKHURST RESIDENTS HAVE MORE LAND BECAUSE THERE'S NO LONGER A BROW DITCH ON THEIR PROPERTY AS YOU DESCRIBED? WELL, THE BROW DITCH ON THEIR SIDE WOULD STILL BE THERE UNLESS THEY CHOOSE TO REMOVE THAT.
BUT YEAH, THERE IS SOME OPEN SPACE THERE THAT THEY CAN UTILIZE IF THEY CHOOSE TO BECAUSE THEY WON'T NEED THE DITCH ON THERE.
AND BECAUSE YOU'RE BUILDING A MASONRY WALL, YOU SAID THEY COULD REMOVE THEIR FENCES IF THEY WANT TO AND THEN THE MASONRY BALL BECOMES THEIR NEW BACK FENCE.
IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE SAYING? YES.
JUST WANT TO UNDERSTAND THESE DIFFERENCES BETWEEN THE TWO PROPERTIES.
ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FROM THE COUNCIL? THANK YOU, SIR.
THE NEXT SPEAKER IS ANGELA ABBOTT.
YEAH, SO AVID, I'VE LIVED, I LIVE AT 21.
ANDREW, WOULD YOU MIND PULLING THAT UP? OKAY.
UH, ANGELA AVIT 2120 BROOKHURST DRIVE SINCE 1990 29 YEARS ON BROOK CURSED AND
HAS ANYONE EVER DRIVEN DOWN OUR STREET? IT'S PRETTY NICE.
I THINK IT'S ONE OF THE MOST ELEGANT STREETS AND ALL OF ELK A HOME.
UM, MY HOUSE IS 150 FRONTAGE BY ABOUT 125 DEEP.
I HAVE 20,000 SQUARE, 20,000 SQUARE FEET, OBVIOUSLY.
SO IT'S A VERY LARGE, UM, I OF COURSE OBJECTED, I'VE MET WITH BRIAN A FEW TIMES AND TOLD HIM HOW MUCH I HAVE OBJECTED TO THIS.
THE 9,000 SQUARE FEET LOT WAS ABSOLUTELY OUT AND WHEN I SAW THE 14,000, I FELT A LITTLE BETTER AND I THOUGHT, WELL, THEY'RE TRYING, THEY'RE COMPROMISING.
BUT I STILL, WHEN I REALLY THINK ABOUT WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN IN THE WAY THE HOUSES LOOK AND IF THEY'RE GOING TO BE 90 SQUARE FEET WA YOU KNOW, LOTS, THOSE HOUSES ARE GOING TO BE SCRUNCHED IN TOGETHER.
AND THE WORD AESTHETICS, I KNOW THE LADY THAT WAS TALKING FIRST, I'M SORRY, YOU DON'T KNOW WHO THAT WAS THAT PRESENTED THE PROJECT? WHO, WHO WAS, I DIDN'T GET HER NAME.
IS THAT MELISSA? OH, IT'S MELISSA.
YOU HAVE TALKED TO MELISSA MANY TIMES.
UM, I JUST DON'T BELIEVE THE AESTHETICS OF THAT NEIGHBORHOOD WILL SEE ANYWHERE COMPARED TO WHAT OUR STREET AND OUR NEIGHBORHOODS LOOK LIKE.
THEY'LL WILL, IT, IT CAN'T COMPARE.
THEY'LL TRY AND I HAVE TO SAY ON THE ZONING MAP, IT'S INTERESTING THAT THEY TALK ABOUT THE RS
[00:40:01]
14 MONTHS.THEY PROBABLY HAVE BEEN THERE.
THOSE HOUSES ARE, WERE THERE LONG BEFORE BOOKER'S WAS EVEN DEVELOPED I BELIEVE.
AND IF YOU LOOK AT THOSE HOUSES ON THOSE ARES 14 LOTS, THEY JUST DO NOT COMPARE TO OUR STREET.
I MEAN, WHEN I PICTURE THOSE, I PICTURE NOT SOMETHING THAT I WOULD LIKE TO LOOK AT EVERY DAY.
I KNOW MIKE SPILKER CAN'T, COULDN'T BE HERE TONIGHT AND HE WROTE A LONG LETTER.
HE'S VERY STRONGLY OPPOSED TO THIS PROJECT.
UM, HE REALLY FEELS THAT THERE ARE NOT, HE DOESN'T SEE THE COMPELLING REASON TO DO THIS.
I HATE TO BE SNOTTY ABOUT IT, BUT IT'S ABOUT A LITTLE BIT ABOUT GREED.
I KNOW THE CHURCH NEEDS THE MONEY.
THEY WANT TO MAKE THE MOST MONEY THEY CAN.
I MEAN, WE CAN'T REALLY FIGHT.
BUT AT THE SAME TIME, IT'S AT THE EXPENSE OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD THAT WE'VE LIVED IN FOR ACTUALLY SINCE THE 80S IT WAS ORIGINALLY ACROSS THE STREET.
I'M ON BROOKHURST ON THE NEWER SIDE.
AND THEN IN THE 80S WHERE WEHR WAS THE DEVELOPER OF ALL THOSE LOTS BACK THEN.
AND I KNOW THERE'S NOTHING IN WRITING FROM OTTO, THE GUY THAT ORIGINALLY OWNED THE SACRED HEART CHURCH THERE, BUT I THINK IT WAS A, AN UNDERSTANDING THAT HE WANTED THIS AREA EAST OF GRANITE HILLS DRIVE AND ALL OF ALL SHADOW MOUNTAIN.
YOU'RE NOT GOING TO FIND ANY LOTS AS FAR AS I CAN TELL FROM LOOKING AT THE ZONING MAP, WHICH I KEEP LOOKING AT EVERY DAY.
I DIDN'T FIND ANY LOTS LESS THAN 20,000 SQUARE FEET ALL UP SHADOW MOUNTAIN.
SO I DON'T SEE THE NECESSITY TO COMPROMISE THOSE AESTHETICS FOR THE SAKE OF SHADOW MOUNTAIN CHURCH.
I KNOW IT'S HARSH, BUT I JUST DON'T AGREE WITH IT.
I JUST DON'T THINK IT'S THE RIGHT THING TO DO FOR OUR NEIGHBORHOOD.
AND I THINK OUR VALUES MAY BE DIMINISHED.
I CAN'T SAY FOR SURE TRAFFIC WILL BE AN ISSUE.
UM, IT'S JUST, I JUST DON'T SEE THE NECESSITY.
WE AGREED TO SIX HOUSES BACK IN 2004 AND I WAS AT EVERY MEETING THAT WE WENT TO AND THAT WAS THE COMPROMISE THEY MADE WITH US THAT THEY WOULD, UM, WE, WE AGREED TO GIVE THEM MY PARKING LOT, WHICH IS RIGHT UP AGAINST THE HOMES AT THE END OF BROOKHURST.
UM, OH, ONE OF MY JOBS IS TO WATCH THE CLOCK.
I KNOW I'M AT A TIME I COULD GO ON AND ON.
SO IF YOU WANT TO FINISH IT UP CAUSE I APPRECIATE, WELL OF COURSE I OPPOSE IT.
I WOULD LIKE TO SEE, UM, WITH THE SQUARE FOOTAGE ON THE SOUTH PARCEL OF 4.66 ACRES.
UM, YOU KNOW, NINE HOUSES WOULD BE BETTER.
LET'S GIVE UP, YOU KNOW, MAKE THEM, I THINK I, HOW DO YOU FIGURE IT OUT? I CAN'T FIGURE IT OUT.
SO IF EACH, SO NO, IT'S, IT'S ALMOST FIVE ACRES, SO IT ACTUALLY ADDS UP TO 10, BUT THAT DOESN'T SEEM RIGHT.
WHY ARE THE LOTS ONLY 14,000 SQUARE FEET? WHERE'S THE OTHER ACREAGE? IF THEY'RE SAYING IT'S 4.66 ACRES, THAT'S WHAT YOU WERE ASKING.
WHY AREN'T THEY JUST MAKING THEM BIGGER? LOTS, YOU KNOW, WE'LL DELVE INTO THAT AND I APPRECIATE YOU.
I HAVE A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS, BILL.
UH, STEVE HAS A QUESTION FOR YOU.
I'D LIKE TO UNDERSTAND MORE ABOUT YOUR POINT OF VIEW AND, AND THESE QUESTIONS WOULD PROBABLY BE FOR ANY SPEAKER.
UH, YOU SAID THIS PROJECT WOULD COME AT THE EXPENSE OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD.
WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY THAT? I FEEL THAT, UM, WE'RE ALL REALLY PROUD OF OUR NEIGHBORHOOD AND YOU KNOW, YOU, YOU MAKE THAT TURN ONTO BROKER'S DRIVE AND YOU JUST FEEL LIKE YOU'RE IN JUST IN ANOTHER WORLD.
IT'S JUST SUCH A BEAUTIFUL STREET AND I FEEL THAT, YOU KNOW, WE'RE GOING TO SEE HOUSES SCRUNCHED TOGETHER.
UM, MY THOUGHTS FOR THOSE HOUSES WHEN THEY ORIGINALLY IN 2004 WAS TO MAKE THEM CUSTOM LOTS AND SELL THE LOTS AND LET PEOPLE BUILD CUSTOM HOMES, BEAUTIFUL HOMES, MILLION DOLLAR HOMES.
OUR HOMES ARE CLOSE TO A MILLION DOLLARS ON THAT STREET.
SO CERTAINLY I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE PRICE OF THESE HOMES THAT ARE GOING TO BE.
AND MY, MY HOME IS 3,500 SQUARE FEET AND I KNOW YOU'RE ASKING A QUESTION ABOUT IN EVERY HOUSE IS PROBABLY OH, ABOUT 3000 OR LARGER ON THAT STREET.
AND I JUST CAN'T SEE THEM SQUEEZING IN THAT MUCH SQUARE FOOTAGE ON A VERY NARROW LOT AND IT'S JUST, IT'S JUST NOT GOING TO HAVE THE LOOK THAT WE, WE HAVE, IT'S JUST NOT, AND I DON'T UNDERSTAND THE NECESSITY OF IT IN THAT AREA OTHER, IT'S JUST, I JUST DON'T BELIEVE THAT IT NEEDS TO BE DONE IN THAT AREA.
[00:45:01]
YOU MENTIONED YOU THOUGHT YOUR PROPERTY VALUE WILL TAKE A HIT.WHY DO YOU BELIEVE THAT? NO, BECAUSE THEY'RE PROBABLY GOING TO SELL OF, I DON'T KNOW, SEVEN, SIX TO 700,000 MAYBE.
HOW DOES THAT NEGATIVELY AFFECT, HELP ME UNDERSTAND HOW YOUR
AS YOU KNOW, THEY'RE GOING TO MAKE A CIRCLE AND SEE WHAT'S SOLD IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD AND THEY'RE GOING TO SAY, WELL, THIS HOUSE WITH THIS MANY SQUARE FEET AND THIS MANY BEDROOMS AND BATHROOMS, SO FOR THIS, WHY DO YOU THINK YOURS IS WORTH ANY MORE THAN THAT? THE COMPS ARE GOING TO BE LOWER.
THERE'S NO QUESTION ABOUT THAT.
IF, IF THEY'RE DIFFERENT SIZE, HALF ACRE LOT VERSUS A THIRD ACRE LOT ARE THE, ARE YOU SEEING THEY'RE COMPARABLE AND SO IT'S DRAGGING DOWN YOUR VALUE? WELL, I WOULD BELIEVE THEY PROBABLY THEY WOULD.
I JUST DON'T THINK THAT'S GOING TO ADD ANY VALUE TO OUR NEIGHBORHOOD.
YOU MENTIONED YOU THOUGHT TRAFFIC MIGHT BE AN ISSUE.
SINCE THEY HAVE THEIR OWN PRIVATE STREET, WHICH DOESN'T KNOW COMING IN IN GRASS COMING IN AND OUT ONTO MADISON, SO THIS IS THE FIRST I HEARD THAT YOU'RE GOING TO WIDEN MADISON INTO LIKE FOUR LANES OR YOU SAID YOU'RE GOING TO ADD A LANE.
I WAS A LITTLE CONFUSED ON THAT.
I KNOW I NEVER HEARD THEM SAY ANYTHING ABOUT WIDENING MADISON.
IT'S CONDITION OF APPROVAL FROM OUR PUBLIC WORKS DEPARTMENT FULLY BE LIKE THE FOUR LANE, TWO LANES EACH WAY, WALK ON EACH SIDE.
DOES THAT HELP ALLEVIATE YOUR TRAFFIC? SHOULD ALLEVIATE TRAFFIC? IT SHOULD, BUT IT PROBABLY, BUT THE WHOLE IDEA OF WHERE WE LIVE IS DEFINITELY A RURAL FEEL.
YOU KNOW, WE, WE FEEL THAT WE HAVE A RURAL FEEL, WE DON'T HAVE A HIGH, OBVIOUSLY LOW LOW DENSITY IS EXACTLY WHAT IT IS.
AND WE WOULD LIKE TO KEEP IT THAT WAY.
BUT, UM, I JUST FEEL THAT THE CHURCH SAYS STICK TO THEIR ORIGINAL PLAN OF HALF-ACRE LOTS.
SO QUICK QUESTION, I DON'T MEAN TO PUT YOU ON THE SPOT, BUT IF YOU OWN THAT LAND AND YOU CAN, YOU CAN SELL HOUSES AND GIVE MONEY TO YOUR KIDS, WOULDN'T YOU? WOULD YOU WANT TO DO THAT OR WOULD YOU WANT TO LEAVE IT UNTOUCHED BECAUSE OF THE, NO, I DON'T, I UNDERSTAND PROGRESS HAS TO BE MADE AND IN, UM, I, IF I OWN THAT LAND, I, I WOULD, AND IF I HAD TO LIVE THERE TOO, I WOULD SAY SUB DIVIDED INTO LOTS AND I MEAN THEY ARE VIEW LOTS.
UM, I THINK THAT AS A CUSTOM HOME THAT THEY WOULD SELL BETTER THAN A, A KIND OF A SEMI TRACK THAT WE'RE GOING TO BE GETTING, BUT UH, AND SOMEONE WOULD LOVE TO BUILD A BEAUTIFUL VIEW CUSTOM HOME UP ON THAT HILL.
I MEAN, I, I THINK THE LOTS COULD SOLVE FOR THREE OR 400,000.
I MEAN IT WOULD SAVE A LOT OF AGGRAVATION.
IT JUST SUBDIVIDED AND SELL THE LOTS.
UH, YOU SEEM VERY KNOWLEDGEABLE ON THE SUBJECT, SO I APPRECIATE THAT.
UM, AND THANK YOU FOR THE, UH, INFORMATION ABOUT THE 3000 SQUARE FOOT HOME, YOU KNOW, 3000 SQUARE FEET AND ABOVE.
UM, IF WE TURN THIS DOWN TONIGHT AND THEY DECIDE TO SELL THE PROPERTY FOR SOMEONE TO BUILD DORMS, HOW DO YOU FEEL? WELL, THAT ISN'T PART OF THE MASTER PLAN, RIGHT? THAT AREA WAS DESIGNATED AS RESIDENTIAL IN THE MASTER PLAN ON THAT WHERE IT SAYS WEST THERE.
SO TECHNICALLY BECAUSE WE AGREED TO LET THEM BUILD THAT PARKING LOT AND HAVING PARKING LOT LIGHTS SHINING INTO OUR NEIGHBORHOODS AND DOORS SLAMMING AND YOU KNOW, THE CHURCH IS A BUSY PLACE.
UM, THE OFFSET TO GIVING THEM THAT PARKING LOT AT THAT TIME WAS WE, WE DON'T WANT A PARKING LOT UP AGAINST US.
WE DON'T WANT THE DORMS UP AGAINST US.
WE DON'T WANT THE SCHOOL UP AGAINST US.
AND THAT WAS THE COMPROMISE AT THE TIME.
DON'T GO YET, CAUSE I HAVE A QUESTION.
I'M NOT TRYING TO WORK YOU OVER HERE.
I, YOU KNOW, I'VE BEEN AROUND A LONG TIME WITH IT.
UH, STAFF, UH, CAN THE APPLICANT BUILD THE DORMS BY RIGHT, IF THEY WANTED TO BUILD DORMS ACCORDING TO THE SPECIFIC PLAN.
AS YOU SEE THERE ON THE LEFT IMAGE WHERE THERE'S THREE, A RECTANGLE SHAPED, UM, RECTANGLE SHAPES, UH, THOSE ARE THREE, TWO STORY DORMS THAT WERE APPROVED IN 2004 AS PART OF THE MASTER PLAN SO THAT THE SHADOW MOUNTAIN WOULD HAVE TO DO, WOULD HAVE TO COME IN AND THE PAIN BUILDING PERMITS, OH, SO THEY BUILD BY, RIGHT.
BUT THEY JUST HAD TO BUILD A GOOD ACCORDING TO BUILDING CODE.
[00:50:02]
AND I KNOW YOU HAD SOME QUESTIONS ABOUT, YOU KNOW, AN APPRAISAL.LET'S SAY IF YOU'RE TRYING TO REFINANCE OR SOMETHING, IF YOUR INTEREST RATES KEEP GOING DOWN, YOU KNOW, UH, FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO DON'T KNOW, I'M, I'VE BEEN A REAL ESTATE APPRAISER FOR 36 YEARS.
I GET A MASTER'S DEGREE IN REAL ESTATE AND I'VE BEEN AN INVESTOR FOR 40 YEARS AND I TAUGHT REAL ESTATE OR APPRAISAL AT SOUTHWESTERN COLLEGE FOR 10 YEARS.
SO I HAVE SOME KNOWLEDGE ABOUT THAT.
AND USUALLY WHAT THE APPRAISER DOES IS IT TAKE A LOOK AT THE SQUARE FOOTAGE OF THE COMP.
IN THIS CASE, IF IT'S A LITTLE BIT SMALLER THAN YOURS, LET'S SEE, 500 SQUARE FEET, THAT YOU'D BE AN ADJUSTMENT.
THE ADD 500 SQUARE FEET TO THE SALE PRICE OF, OF THE SMALLER HOME TO COME UP WITH A VALUE FOR YOUR HOME.
THE
SO AS, AS FAR AS VALUE GOES, THAT DOESN'T MAKE A WHOLE LOT OF DIFFERENCE.
BUT WHAT'S IMPORTANT IS HOW THE HOUSE LOOKS WHEN YOU DRIVE BY.
AND I'VE BEEN IN YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD, IN FACT, I THINK I DID APPRAISALS.
I THINK THEY BUILT AN 85 OR SO, 85 OR 86 AND NOW MY RECOLLECTIONS ARE THOSE CUSTOM HOMES OR NOT? I THINK SOME HAVE MODELS AND SOME WERE CUSTOMS. THERE'S A LOT OF SPEC BUILDERS CAME IN AND BUILT A FEW HERE AND THERE, BUT EVERY HOUSE, SOME OF THE HOUSES ON THE, THE FIRST IN THE 80S, THE FIRST DEVELOPMENT OF HOMES IN THE 80S, SOME OF THEM ARE THE SAME.
SO THERE WERE SOME SPECIFIC SIDEWALKS, RIGHT? NO SIDE OF BIKES.
BUT ON THE SIDE, ON, UM, WHERE I LIVE ON, ON THE NEWER SIDE, BUILT IN THE 90S, 80, 86.
OH, ACTUALLY, SO IT WAS THE EARLY EIGHTIES ACROSS THE STREET THAT WAS DEVELOPED IN THE NINE, STARTED 86 TO THE MID NINETIES AND THERE, THERE ISN'T ANY HOUSES THAT ARE THE SAME.
THEY'RE ALL DIFFERENT, BUT THEY'RE VERY SIMILAR.
YOU'VE BEEN VERY HELPFUL ANGELA.
I SAW YOUR NAME QUITE A BIT IN THE BACKGROUND MATERIAL, SO YOU HAVE BEEN INVOLVED AS I WANT TO GIVE YOU A CHANCE TO HAVE EVERY RESPONSE THAT YOU CAN HAVE POSSIBLE TO THESE THINGS.
NOW LET'S TAKE A LOOK AT THEM NORTH PARCEL FOR A SECOND.
YOU LIVE ON THE SOUTH SIDE, BUT LET'S LOOK AT THOSE PEOPLE WHO ARE ACROSS THE STREET FROM YOU.
UM, AND IF THE PROJECT ISN'T APPROVED, UH, I GUESS, I DON'T KNOW IF THERE'S ANYBODY HERE WHO LIVES IN THE NORTH PARCEL.
MY QUESTION IS THERE, ISN'T IT? OKAY.
I WILL WANT TO KNOW HOW YOU FEEL ABOUT A SCHOOL BEING THERE INSTEAD OF HOUSING BECAUSE ANYBODY CAN BUILD A SCHOOL THERE.
IT'S ALREADY ZONED FOR SCHOOL.
SO WHEN IT'S YOUR TURN TO SPEAK OR IF YOU'D LIKE TO SPEAK, I'D LIKE TO KNOW YOUR OPINION ON THAT BECAUSE THEY COULD SELL THIS PROPERTY TO LITERACY FIRST OR FOOTHILLS OR ANY OTHER ORGANIZATION WHO CAN BUY RIGHT.
AND I WANTED TO KNOW WHAT THAT DOES TO YOUR THINKING WHEN IT'S THEIR TURN.
IF YOU WANT TO SPEAK, I'D LIKE TO KNOW YOUR OPINION.
THE LAST THING I HAVE FOR YOU IS YOU SAID THE HOUSE WAS SCRUNCHED TOGETHER.
I WANT TO KNOW THAT YOU HAVE A DIFFERENT OPINION THAN MR WAYMIRE WHO SAID, UH, HE BELIEVES THE AVERAGE WIDTH OF THE BROKER SLOTS IS 120 FEET FRONTAGE AND THAT HIS AVERAGE WIDTH IS 110 FEET.
DO YOU AGREE OR DISAGREE WITH HIS OPINION? UM, THE WAY MEYER'S LOT, I BELIEVE IT'S ABOUT THREE QUARTERS OF AN ACRE.
THAT IS ONE OF THE LARGEST SLOTS.
MY QUESTION IS, HE'S KIND OF IN A LITTLE BIT OF A CULDESAC NOT HIS LOT.
OH, MY QUESTIONS EARLIER WAS HOW DOES THE, THE PROPOSED PROJECTS FRONT EDGE DIFFER THAN ALL THE OTHER HOMES IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD? WELL STOP 20, 25 FEET.
YEAH, BECAUSE I KNOW MINE IS, I WISH I KNEW EXACTLY A ABOUT 120 AND UM, THEY'RE SAYING 90, SO THAT'S 30.
I HAVE A LITTLE BIT OF THE LOTS, VERY IN THE WIDTH I HAVE TO SAY.
UM, HE SAID AN AVERAGE OF 10 FEET DIFFERENCE.
I JUST WANT TO KNOW IF YOU AGREE OR DISAGREE MORE THAN 10 FEET.
I THINK WE'LL HAVE TO GO MEASURING ALL THE FURNITURES TOMORROW CAUSE I NEVER REALLY THOUGHT ABOUT IT THAT MUCH.
I WAS TRYING TO GET CONTEXT WHEN YOU SAID THE HOUSES ARE SCRUNCHED TOGETHER AND WHAT IS THE AMOUNT OF SPACE BETWEEN EACH HOUSE? I DON'T THINK I GOT AN ANSWER TO THAT.
UM, FOR THIS DEVELOPMENT, HOW MUCH BETWEEN WHERE THEY'RE GOING TO BUILD A, THESE MINT, THESE MEANT, UM, YOU KNOW, WALL TO WALL, THIS
[00:55:01]
HOUSE TO THIS HOUSE.SO THE QUESTION IS IN THE NEW DEVELOPMENT, HOW MUCH SPACE ON AVERAGE BETWEEN THE HOUSING? IT'S REALLY NOT A REALLY LISTED ON HERE YET.
I DON'T THINK THEY'RE JUST, YOU KNOW, THERE'S NO DIAGRAMS OF WHERE THE HOUSES WILL SIT.
BUT HOW CLOSE THEY WILL BE TO EACH OTHER.
SO THEY WOULD HAVE TO MEET THE, UM, IF, IF APPROVED RS 14, THEY'D HAVE TO MEET THE
SO THE SETBACK REQUIREMENTS ARE THE R 20 IN THE FRONT AND SAME AS BROKERS.
UM, ON THE SIDES, WHAT DOES 10, 12 AND SIX.
BUT WHAT THAT MEANS IS ON ONE SIDE IT HAS TO BE 12, THE OTHER SIDE SIX.
SO EVENTUALLY IN SOME CASES THERE CAN BE UP TO 18 FEET BETWEEN HOUSES.
DO YOU THINK THAT DIFFERS THAN THE BROOKHURST? YES.
YEAH, I WOULD SAY SUBSTANTIALLY JUST TRYING TO UNDERSTAND YOUR POINT OF VIEW.
I'VE GOT ONE FINAL QUESTION THAT JUST BECAUSE YOU'RE SO KNOWLEDGEABLE.
UH, AS CAN, CAN YOU SEE THE PARKING LOT? NOT FROM MY HOUSE.
IT'S BEHIND THE WAY MEYER'S HOUSE.
IT'S BEHIND THE, UM, WHAT'S YOUR LAST NAME? MY BRAIN IS NOT MORE THE WARREN HOUSE AND THE COLANDER HOUSE.
MS. LEWIS, LOIS COLANDERS STILL LIVES THERE.
SHE'S STILL RIGHT UP AGAINST THE PARKING LOT.
WHEN THE WALL GOES UP BACK, THAT'S GOING TO CHANGE THE ANGLE A LITTLE BIT MORE.
I DOUBT IF THEY'RE BELIEVE ISN'T THERE ALREADY A WALL THERE? THERE'S NO WALL.
VINCE IS SIX FOOT, SO IT'S NOT GOING TO BE ANY DIFFERENT THAN THE FENCE.
YEAH, THEY CAN SEE THE PARKING LOT FROM THEIR HOUSE.
THEY CAN SEE THE LIGHTING AND ALL THAT.
SO I DON'T BELIEVE THAT THEY WILL CHANGE THAT WALL, ISN'T IT ALREADY THERE A WALL? YEAH, THAT WALL'S ALREADY THERE.
NOTHING WILL CHANGE ON THAT AND AT THE END OF THE CULDESAC BUT OKAY.
WELL THANK YOU FOR YOUR PATIENCE WITH ALL THE QUESTIONS.
UH, THE CURRENT, UH, BOUNDARY FENCE OF THE BROOKHURST TO STATES ON THE EAST SIDE, THEIR BACKYARD FENCE.
IS THE NEW MASONRY WALL AT A HIGHER ELEVATION OR IS IT AT THE SAME ELEVATION? IN OTHER WORDS, WHAT I'M SAYING IS IF THE NEW MASONRY FENCE IS BUILT ON A LITTLE BIT OF SLOPE AND THAT'S A SIX FOOT FENCE, IN ESSENCE, YOU GET LIKE A 10 FOOT BARRIER.
DO YOU SEE WHAT I'M SAYING? UNDERSTOOD.
I BELIEVE, I BELIEVE THE MASON WALLS ON THE SAME GRADE BECAUSE THAT'S THE SAME SIDE IS WHERE THEY'RE PUTTING THE PRIVATE STREET.
SO THERE'S SOME GRADING GOING ON THERE.
OKAY, SO IT'S THE SAME HEIGHT.
BUT I WOULD LIKE TO CLARIFY YOUR QUESTION EARLIER.
YOUR COMMENT EARLIER ABOUT SETBACKS.
IF YOU LOOK AT THE, UH, THE MONITOR THAT YOU CAN SEE THE SETBACKS IN THE RESIDENTIAL ZONE, THE RS
SO THE FRONT AND THE SIDES ARE, AND THE REAR ARE ALL THE SAME.
YOU SAY IT, IT'S A MOOT POINT.
THEY WERE, THEY WOULD BE THE SAME KIND OF SETBACKS WHETHER OR NOT WE WENT WITH THE LARGER, LARGER ZONING OR NOT.
WELL, THOSE ARE THE MINIMUMS. I MEAN, WHAT IS ACTUALLY OUT THERE COULD BE DIFFERENT THAN THIS.
THEY DON'T HAVE TO, THEY COULD BUILD TO A GREATER SETBACK IF THEY WISH.
BUT THE MINIMUM IS IDENTICAL TO THE RS 14 THE IRS 14 HOURS 20 ARE IDENTICAL AS CORRECT.
I MAKE CHEESE, I KEEP HONEYBEES AND I HAVE A FARM AT MY HOME.
UH, MY MOVED TO GRANITE HILLS BECAUSE OF THE ZONING LAW AND THE PERSONAL FREEDOMS AND SAFETY OF PROVIDES.
WHEN THE CHURCH BOUGHT, WHEN THE CHURCH BROUGHT THIS TO THE NEIGHBORS TO ASK OUR FEEDBACK, THERE WAS NOT A SINGLE PERSON IN ATTENDANCE THAT SPOKE UP THAT SUPPORTED THEIR PLAN.
A FEW PEOPLE ASKED TO COMPROMISE AND TO KEEP GRANITE HILLS AREA HALF ACRE LOTS.
SHADOW MOUNTAIN AGAINST COMMUNITY WISHES BROUGHT THIS TO THE CITY PLANNERS.
AND ONCE AGAIN, NEIGHBORS SHOWED UP AND ASKED TO PLEASE KEEP THE LOTS, THE LEGAL HALF-ACRE SIZE.
NOW THEY BRING THIS FORWARD TO THE CITY COUNCIL FOR APPROVAL.
AND I'M HERE TO ASK AGAIN FOR DEMOCRACY TO PREVAIL AND FOR A LOCAL CHURCH TO WORK WITH THE COMMUNITY
[01:00:01]
INSTEAD OF FIGHTING IT.SOME OF THESE LOTS DON'T EVEN MEET THE MINIMUM REQUIREMENTS TO BE RS 14 WITH TEN THOUSAND TWELVE THOUSAND AND 13,000 SQUARE FOOT LOTS.
THEY ARE TRYING TO FUDGE THE LAW AND AND USE TECHNICALITY TO AVERAGE LOT SIZES.
THESE NEW SUBDIVISIONS ARE NOT COMPATIBLE WITH ANY NEIGHBORING PROPERTY, ESPECIALLY THE FOUR ONE PLUS ACRE LOTS ON THE NORTH SIDE THAT THESE PROPERTIES WILL TOUCH SPOT ZONING.
THESE LOTS WILL PROVIDE UNJUSTIFIED SPECIAL TREATMENT THAT BENEFITS THAT BENEFITS SHADOW MOUNTAIN CHURCH WHILE UNDERMINING THE PREEXISTING RIGHTS AND USES OF ADJACENT PROPERTY OWNERS.
NOT ONLY THAT, BUT THESE LOTS HERE SET A PRECEDENCE FOR ALL OTHER LOTS IN THE AREA OWNED BY SHADOW MOUNTAIN OR OTHER LARGER DEVELOPERS.
THERE'S A NINE AND A HALF ACRE LOT ON GREENFIELD AS WELL.
IF WE GIVE INTO INCREASING THE DENSITY NOW WE ARE GIVING INTO THE CHURCH.
WE ARE GIVING THE CHURCH THE KNOWLEDGE AND POWER THAT THEY DON'T HAVE TO LISTEN TO THE COMMUNITY AND CAN CONTINUE INCREASING DENSITY IN OUR RURAL NEIGHBORHOOD.
AGAINST THE CURRENT LONGTERM CITY PLANNING OBJECTIVES.
AND THEN, UM, I HAD NOT HEARD ABOUT ANY OF THE, THE ROAD WIDENING BEFORE I, I WROTE THIS OUT, BUT AT ITS CURRENT STATE WITH THE TWO, THE, THE TWO WEIRDLY OPPOSITE ROADS THAT, THAT DO NOT CONNECT, LIKE YOU COULDN'T PUT A FOUR WAY STOP THERE BECAUSE THEY'RE, THEY'RE CROOKED.
UM, I THOUGHT THAT WAS POORLY PLANNED AND POTENTIALLY DANGEROUS.
UH, THE LOPSIDED STREETS PLACED ALONG THE SMALL CURVY SECTION OF MADISON, UH, SHOULD BE FURTHER SCRUTINIZED AND TESTED WHEN THAT SECTION OF MADISON BECOMES GRIDLOCKED BY FRESHLY LICENSED HIGH SCHOOLERS FIVE DAYS A WEEK.
THE CONFUSING LAYOUT MAY CAUSE DANGEROUS SITUATION THAT THE CITY MAY HAVE TO ADDRESS WITH COSTLY ROAD IMPROVEMENTS.
UM, THE QUESTIONS COUNCIL'S CHIEF, YOU MENTIONED A GREENFIELD NINE AND A HALF ACRE PARCEL THAT YOU FEAR IS A, THE SETS A PRECEDENT FOR, DO YOU KNOW IF THAT NINE AND A HALF ACRE PARCEL IS IN THE CITY OF ALCOA HOME? UM, CURRENTLY IT IS IN COUNTY.
SO WE, WE, IT COULDN'T BE A PRECEDENT BECAUSE THE COUNTY COULDN'T LOOK AT ALCOHOL AND ZONING TO ZONE A COUNTY.
UNINCORPORATED COULD NEVER BECOME INCORPORATED.
I DON'T THINK THE INCORPORATED WOULD TAKE A LOOK AT EL CAHONE ZONING DECISIONS TO SAY WE'RE GOING TO ZONE.
I THINK THEY WOULD MAKE THEIR OWN DECISIONS.
WE WOULD HAVE TO ANNEX THE PROPERTY TO DO THAT.
SO I DON'T THINK WE HAVE JURISDICTION OR I DON'T, I DON'T KNOW THAT THIS COULD BE A PRECEDENT FOR THEIR NINE HALF-ACRE PROPERTY UNTIL IT BECOMES INCORPORATED EVER IF EVER, IF WE EVER ANNEX IT.
YOU MENTIONED YOU LIVE ON THE NORTH PARCEL.
SO IF THE PROJECT IS NOT APPROVED AND THEY SELL IT AND BECOMES A SCHOOL, HOW DO YOU FEEL ABOUT THAT VERSUS HOUSING? SO I WOULD PREFER HOUSING.
I WOULD PREFER A FEW, UH, HALF ACRE PROPERTIES.
UM, I'M NOT SURE THAT A SCHOOL WOULD EVER BE BUILT THERE.
THERE'S LOTS OF SCHOOLS IN THE AREA.
THERE'S A HIGH SCHOOL, THERE'S A ELEMENTARY SCHOOL IN MIDDLE SCHOOL, THERE'S AN ADULT SCHOOL ON MADISON.
THERE'S A FEW CHURCHES THAT THIS WAS SET OUT TO BECOME AN ELEMENTARY SCHOOL FOR SHADOW MOUNTAIN.
AND IF THEY DECIDED TO SELL THE PROPERTY BECAUSE THEY CAN'T USE IT AT ELEMENTARY SCHOOL, BUT, BUT ANOTHER ORGANIZATION LIKE FOOTHILLS OR LITERACY FIRST OR, OR A PRESCHOOL OPERATOR WANTS TO COME IN AND OPERATE A PRIVATE PRESCHOOL.
UH, HOW DO YOU FEEL ABOUT A SCHOOL'S ACTIVITIES VERSUS HOUSING? IT WOULD DEPEND ON THE TYPE OF SCHOOL, BUT I WOULD BE MORE INCLINED TO HAVE A FEW HOUSES THERE.
IF YOU STICK AROUND FOR A SECOND, GO AHEAD.
OH, JUST AS AN ASIDE, I'M THE GUY THAT MADE THE BEEKEEPING LEGAL, SO I'M GLAD TO HEAR THAT YOU'RE, YOU'VE GOT THESE, I THINK THAT'S A GREAT THING.
WELL,
AND YOU KNOW, IT GETS KINDA, YOU KNOW, WHEN PEOPLE GET PASSIONATE, THEY, THEY START THROWING AROUND ALL KINDS OF IDEAS ABOUT HOW HORRIBLE IT'S GOING TO BE.
AND, UM, WE, I REMEMBER THAT WE, THAT WE, WE SAID, LOOK, PEOPLE HAVE A RIGHT TO DO WHAT THEY WANT ON THEIR OWN PROPERTY.
AS LONG AS IT'S LEGAL, ETHICAL, AND MORAL.
AND I DIDN'T FIND ANYTHING ILLEGAL, ILLEGAL OR UNETHICAL OR IMMORAL ABOUT KEEPING BEES OR MAKING CHEESE OR SOME PEOPLE WANT TO HAVE GOATS AND IT'S JUST, IT'S A, IT'S A PROPERTY RIGHTS THING AND THAT'S, YOU KNOW, EVENTUALLY WE'RE GOING TO GET DOWN TO TALKING ABOUT THAT.
[01:05:01]
AND YOU KNOW, I, I, I GET THE CONCERNED THAT PEOPLE WOULD LIKE IT TO BE THE WAY THEY WANT IT TO BE, BUT ALSO IN AMERICA, PEOPLE HAVE A RIGHT TO DO WITH THEIR PROPERTY WHAT THEY WANT TO DO WITH THEIR PROPERTY.JUST REAL QUICK BEFORE HE LEAVES, HE HAD MENTIONED THAT, UM, SOME OF THE LOTS WERE NOT COMPLIANT WITH THE RS 14 ZONING AND THAT THE EXPLANATION WAS THAT OVER THE AVERAGE, IT, IT DID WORK OUT.
BUT ARE THERE SOME WATSON IN THAT THAT ARE NOT COMPLIANT? WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE PROPOSED SUBDIVISION OR AN EXISTING SUBDIVISION.
SO THE PROPOSED SUBDIVISION TAKES ADVANTAGE OF WHAT THE MUNICIPAL CODE OFFERS, WHICH IS LOT AVERAGING AS LONG AS THE AVERAGE OF ALL THE LOTS MEETS THE MINIMUM LOT SIZE, SOME ARE GOING TO BE MORE, SOME ARE GOING TO BE LESS.
UM, MELISSA AND INDICATED THAT THE AVERAGE OF ALL THE LOTS EXCEED 14,000 SQUARE FEET.
UM, THE OTHER STIPULATION IS THAT AT LEAST HALF OF THE LOTS ARE UM, UH, ABOVE 14,000 SQUARE FEET.
AND DOES ANY OF THIS CLASSIFY AS SPOT ZONING? THE ZONING IS CONSISTENT WITH THE GENERAL PLAN AND THE GENERAL PLAN HAD INDICATED THAT THE UNDER THE LL ARE DESIGNATION THERE COULD BE ANYWHERE BETWEEN ZERO AND THREE DWELLING UNITS PER ACRE AND THE RS 14 FITS THAT CATEGORY.
THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR COMING.
HELLO, MS JEN, HOW ARE YOU? I'M WELL MAYOR WELLS.
UM, I AM MAUREEN SHIN AND I'D LIKE TO PREFACE THE FACT THAT I ACTUALLY DON'T LIVE IN THE CITY OF OKLAHOMA.
I ACTUALLY LIVE NEXT TO THE PARCEL.
HE WAS REFERRING TO THE NINE AND A HALF ACRES ON GREENFIELD.
UM, I OWN MY CHILDHOOD HOME THAT MY PARENTS BUILT IN 1977.
SO TO SAY THAT I'M DEEPLY ROOTED IN THAT AREA IS VERY IMPORTANT TO ME.
HOWEVER, I'M ALSO A VERY DEEPLY ROOTED, UH, PERSON IN THE CITY OF OKLAHOMA.
I SIT ON THE DIRECT BOARD OF DIRECTORS FOR THE CHAMBER OF COMMERCE, WHICH I'D LIKE TO STATE FOR THE RECORD.
I AM NOT HERE IN THAT CAPACITY.
I JUST LIKE TO STATE THAT I HAVE A VESTED INTEREST IN THE COMMUNITY AND, UM, I WORK IN ALCOHOL.
AND SO I'D LIKE TO PREFACE MY ARGUMENT, MY STATEMENTS WITH THAT.
UM, I JUST FOUND OUT ABOUT THIS LAST NIGHT AND THAT'S CONCERNING TO ME CONSIDERING YES, I DON'T LIVE IN THE CITY OF OKLAHOMA AND MY HOME DOESN'T DIRECTLY, UH, BUT TO THIS PROPERTY THAT THEY'RE REFERRING TO.
HOWEVER, I DO FIND IT A PRECURSOR TO WHAT WILL HAPPEN WITH THAT PROPERTY ON NINE AND A HALF ACRES.
AND WE CAN, WHAT IF IT ALL TONIGHT AND SAY IT'S NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN.
BUT IT CERTAINLY IS A POTENTIAL ARGUMENT THAT SHADOW MOUNTAIN CHURCH COULD HAVE THAT PROPERTY ANNEXED INTO THE CITY OF OKLAHOMA FOR FUTURE SITES.
SO I'D LIKE TO STATE THAT THAT'S A LOT OF MY CAPACITY THIS EVENING.
YEAH, AND TO YOU IN REFERENCE TO THE APPRAISALS, UM, COUNCIL MEMBER KENDRICK, I AM IN LENDING, SO I'M VERY FAMILIAR WITH APPRAISALS, NOT TO YOUR DEGREE BY ANY MEANS, BUT THERE IS A LINE ITEM ON AN APPRAISAL THAT SAYS DOES THE HOUSE CONFORM TO THE GENERAL NEIGHBOR GENERALLY CONFORM TO THE NEIGHBORHOOD? AND I WOULD SAY THAT I DO NOT THINK THAT THESE DEVELOPMENT ACTUALLY CONFORMS TO THE NEIGHBORHOOD.
THIS IS A VERY, LIKE SHE HAD MENTIONED, IT'S ALMOST A PART RURAL COMMUNITY ON HALF ACRE LOTS.
AND I THINK THAT IF YOU'RE GOING TO BUILD A COMMUNITY TO BE AESTHETICALLY CONFORMING TO THE AREA, I WOULD SAY THAT YOU WOULD PROBABLY NEED TO HAVE HALF ACRE LOTS.
UM, I AM PRO BUILDING, I AM PRO GROWTH, BUT I'M PRO APPROPRIATE BUILDING AND PRO APPROPRIATE GROWTH AND I DON'T SEE THAT THIS DEVELOPMENT CONFORMS TO THAT AREA.
I WOULD THINK THAT THAT WOULD CONFORM MORE TO THE HOME DEPOT SITE WHERE YOU HAVE EASY INGRESS AND EGRESS AND ACCESS TO THE FREEWAY ON MAIN THOROUGHFARES.
THIS TO ME SEEMS VERY CONGESTED AND I THINK THAT IT WOULD AFFECT PROPERTY VALUES AND I THINK PEOPLE WOULD HAVE, UM, YOU KNOW, A CASE TO MAKE.
AND AGAIN, BACK TO THE FACT THAT I JUST LEARNED ABOUT THIS LAST NIGHT.
I'M SPEAKING ON VERY LIMITED INFORMATION, SO I APOLOGIZE TO SAY THAT, BUT, UM, I WOULD LOVE TO HAVE A SECONDARY MEETING.
I'M SORRY THAT IT GOT CONTENTIOUS, BUT I THINK THAT MORE OF THE NEIGHBORS SHOULD KNOW.
AND I LIVE ON A STREET THAT HAS EIGHT PEOPLE, EIGHT HOMES ON THAT STREET, THREE OF THOSE EIGHT NEIGHBORS ARE HERE TONIGHT.
SO CLEARLY IT'S IMPORTANT TO THE SURROUNDING NEIGHBORHOODS, NOT JUST THE ONES THAT HAVE, BUT TO THE PROPERTY ITSELF.
UH, THIS IS A QUESTION FOR CITY STAFF.
THE NINE AND A HALF ACRES THAT I HEAR ABOUT.
IS THAT ADJACENT TO CITY LIMITS OR ARE THERE OTHER LOTS IN BETWEEN THE NINE AND A HALF ACRES AND THERE ARE OTHER PROPERTIES BETWEEN THE CITY.
SO IF WE'RE TALKING ABOUT ANNEX THING, THAT 900 ACRE LOT, IT'S GOT TO BE A WHOLE OTHER LOTS BEFORE THAT.
OTHER LOTS WOULD HAVE TO BE INCLUDED.
BUT IT IS OWNED BY HIS SHADOW MOUNTAIN CHURCH.
ALL THE OTHER LOTS IN BETWEEN THE NINE HALF ACRES IN THE CITY LIMITS.
NO, NO, NO, THAT THAT PARTICULAR LOT.
[01:10:01]
I DON'T KNOW.AND SO IF WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE ABILITY TO SELL A PROPERTY, HOWEVER WAY YOU SEE FIT, THAT PROPERTY COULD BE PUT UP FOR HOWEVER THEY SEE FIT.
WE'RE TALKING ABOUT, WOULD THIS DECISION BE A PRECEDENT FOR GREENFIELD'S ASSUMINGLY OWNED NINE AND A HALF ACRES BEING ZONED THE SAME WAY.
AND WE SAID, WELL, WE'D HAVE TO ANNEX IT AT THE CITY, BUT I'M HEARING, BUT THERE'S A WHOLE OTHER BUNCH OF PARCELS IN BETWEEN THAT HAVE TO GO WITH IT.
SO I'M TRYING TO UNDERSTAND THE CONTEXT OF THIS PRECEDENT.
I, I GUESS MY, MY THOUGHT PROCESS WOULD BE IF THEY'RE WILLING TO DO IT AT THIS LEVEL, WHAT'S TO STOP THEM FROM TRYING TO DO IT AT A DIFFERENT LEVEL AT A DIFFERENT TIME.
I UNDERSTAND REGARDING THE, THE CONTACT WITH THE COMMUNITY, I READ IN THE BACKUP THAT SHADOW MOUNTAIN HELD A COUPLE OF COMMUNITY MEETINGS AND REACHED OUT TO 118 HOMES.
SO THEY WENT BEYOND A 300 FOOT, UM, STATUTORY LIMIT AND WERE QUITE INCLUSIVE.
THEY MAY NOT HAVE REACHED AS FAR AS YOU, DO YOU THINK THAT WAS A GOOD FAITH EFFORT? I DON'T THINK THERE WAS ANY MALICE BEHIND IT.
I JUST THINK THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN, UM, MORE PRUDENT TO INCLUDE THE NEIGHBORHOOD AS A WHOLE BECAUSE I THINK THAT THERE'S A VESTED INTEREST IN THE, IN THE COMMUNITY AS A WHOLE.
AND I MEAN, IF WE'RE GOING TO BE FAIR, I DO GET ADVERTISEMENTS FROM SHADOW MOUNTAIN CHURCH, SO I WOULD THINK THAT THEY'D WANT TO REACH OUT TO, YOU KNOW, MORE.
AND IF THEY WENT BEYOND THE 300 FEET, THAT'S GREAT.
BUT I THINK IT WOULD BE NICE TO HAVE A MORE BROAD APPROACH TO THIS.
FINALLY YOU MENTIONED THE, UM, THE OLD HOME DEPOT LOT, WHICH IS CALLED MAIN RANCH, RIGHT.
SAYING YOU FELT THERE WAS, THIS PROJECT WAS SIMILAR TO UH, THE AESTHETICS OR FEEL.
TONY, WHAT IS THE ZONING DESIGNATION FOR THE MAIN RANCH FOR CONTEXT? UH, WELL DOES THE ZONING, IS THAT THE WILL WILL, THE ZONING IS ACTUALLY COMMERCIAL WITH A SPECIFIC PLAN ON IT THAT ALLOWS FOR RESIDENTIAL, THAT RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENT, UM, ON 14 ACRES IS 139 UNITS.
SO I'M ABOUT 10 UNITS AN ACRE TENURED TO, SO THAT'S SECOND RS FOUR AND THAT'S SIX UP LESS LESS THAN YOUR TYPICAL SINGLE FAMILY NEIGHBORHOOD.
I'M JUST TRYING TO UNDERSTAND THE, THE, THE, THE SIZE OF THE HOME DEPOT LOT VERSUS THIS SLOTTED AT THE HOME DEPOT LOT IS 14 ACRES.
SO IT'S ABOUT 140 HOMES ABOUT, UM, YEAH, SO IF, IF EACH LOT, IF IT WAS ZONED, NOT AS A SPECIFIC PLAN FOR A 14 ACRE LOT, BUT IT WAS AN RS, SOMETHING, WHAT WOULD BE CLOSE TO THAT? I DO A QUICK CALCULATION, CARRY THE TWO DIVIDE BY THE TIRE SIZE, AVERAGE CAR OR SOMETHING.
SO IT'S ABOUT A 4,300 SQUARE FEET.
SO I'M ONE UNIT PER 4,300 SQUARE FEET.
SO THERE ARE 43,000 SQUARE FEET IN AN ACRE.
SO THIS WOULD BE AN R S WELL, IT WOULDN'T QUALIFY AS ANY SINGLE FAMILY ZONE.
IT WOULD BE MORE IN SMALLER THAN AN RSA SIX, DEFINITELY.
SO IT'S, I'M TRYING TO GET THE CONTEXT RIGHT.
AND IF YOU WOULD LOOK AT THOSE HOMES IN COMPARISON TO THE SURROUNDING HOMES OF THAT AREA, WOULD YOU THINK MR CHUTE THAT THERE WERE MORE COMPARABLE TO THOSE HOUSES VERSUS THE COMPARABILITY OF THESE HOMES TO THE BROOKHURST RESIDENTS? SO THIS, I THINK IT'S HARD FOR HIM TO, TO, UH, GET INVOLVED IN A SUBJECTIVE CLAIM LIKE THAT.
I THINK THEY'LL LEAVE THAT TO US.
BUT, UH, I, I GOT, YOU KNOW, I, I UNDERSTAND YOUR POINT.
UM, WHAT, WHAT IN YOUR MIND, WHAT WOULD BE A REASONABLE THING? BECAUSE IF YOU OWN THE PROPERTY, YOU PROBABLY WANT TO DEVELOP IT.
AND I THINK THAT IT'S, IT'S REASONABLE TO, I THINK HALF-ACRE LOTS WOULD BE REASONABLE.
AND, UM, I THINK, I GUESS AS I SAID EARLIER, YOU COULD, WHAT IF, HOW YOU COULD, WHAT YOU COULD DO WITH THE PROPERTY ALL DAY LONG, YOU CAN SELL TO WHOEVER YOU WANT, BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY, IT'S CURRENTLY ZONED
I THINK IT'S ACTUALLY
AND HOW, HOW, HOW LOW CAN I GO DOWN TO THE CURRENT ZONING OF THE SOUTH PARCEL WHERE THIS PART OF THE MAP HAS PROPOSED AS
SO THAT'S THE SAME ZONING AS A BOOKER SUBDIVISION TO THE WEST, BUT THEY'RE NOT, I'M GETTING CONFUSED.
BUT ONE POINT THE, THE PLAN WAS TO HAVE MORE HOUSES.
I 2021 OR 22 HOUSES AND THEN WENT DOWN TO 19.
WELL THAT WAS PART OF SHADOW MOUNTAIN'S ORIGINAL PROPOSAL TO HAVE 23 PROPOSED HOMES UNDER AN
ON THE BROKERS SIDE YOU SEE 10, UM, INSTEAD OF ORIGINALLY, UH, APPROVED UNDER THE MASTER PLAN IS SIX.
AND THEN ON NINE ON THE NORTH PARCEL WHERE THE PAROCHIAL SCHOOL OR THE ELEMENTARY SCHOOL WOULD BE LOCATED.
[01:15:02]
NOW THE GENERAL PLAN, UH, FOR LOW LOW DENSITY RESIDENTIAL IS ZERO TO THREE UNITS PER ACRE.I UNDERSTAND IT'S CURRENTLY ZONED TO RS 20, BUT ALLOWABLE UNDER THE CURRENT GENERAL PLAN.
BUT ANYTHING FROM AN RS 14 UP TO AN RS 40? THAT'S CORRECT.
UM, ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR MS GINNER? THANKS MOLLY.
WELL I DIDN'T PREPARE A SPEECH, SO THIS IS, I'M DOING IT OFF THE SEAT OF MY PANTS, BUT UH, I BELIEVE THAT IN ANYTHING LIKE THIS, YOU FOLLOW THE MONEY AND IT'S TO THE BENEFIT OF THE CHURCH TO BUILD THESE HOMES IN AS MANY AS THEY CAN TO GET THE HIGHEST BANG FOR THE BUCK.
BUT I THINK, UH, I'M INTO COMPROMISE.
I THINK THERE'S THREE THINGS THEY COULD DO TO COMPROMISE.
ONE IS THEY COULD CUT THE DENSITY DOWN ON THE SOUTH SIDE BY TWO HOUSES AT LEAST.
TWO THEY COULD PUT UP, NO TWO STORY HOMES MAKE 'EM ALL SINGLE STORY SO THAT YOU DON'T HAVE THE LOOK OVER PROBLEM.
AND THREE, INSTEAD OF HAVING THE TRACK EXIT AND ENTER FROM MADISON, THEY COULD BRING IT AROUND TO GREENFIELD AND GO OUT ON GREENFIELD THAT HAS LESS TRAFFIC EXCEPT FOR THE HIGH TRAFFIC DURING CHURCH.
OTHER THAN THAT IT'D BE LESS TRAFFIC AND MUCH EASIER EXIT.
SO THOSE ARE THE THREE THINGS I THINK THAT CAN BE DONE AND CAN COMPROMISE, ADD MORE SQUARE FOOTAGE TO EACH PROPERTY AND INSTILL A P A A GOOD HOUSING PROJECT.
MR. MINER, DO YOU FEEL THIS PROJECT WOULDN'T NEGATIVELY AFFECT YOUR PROPERTY VALUE? I THINK SO.
IF WE WERE GOING TO SELL OUR HOUSE, UH, IF WE HAD TWO STORIES LOOKING DOWN ON, ON THE HOMES BELOW, YEAH, I THINK THAT WOULD NEGATIVELY IMPACT US.
UM, MS PRYOR, SMART CASH WASN'T SURE.
UH, YOU KNOW, I, I REALLY, I REALLY LIKE WHAT YOU SAID ABOUT THE, THE TWO STORY HOMES.
I THINK THAT THAT MIGHT BE A POINT OF COMPROMISE LATER.
BUT DO YOU FEEL THAT THE MOVING FROM 23 HOUSES ORIGINALLY, WHICH WAS THEIRS, THEY PROBABLY COULD HAVE BEEN APPROVED FOR TWO 19.
IS A SHOW OF GOOD FAITH AND COMPROMISE ALREADY? OR DO YOU THINK THAT'S, I THINK IT'S A MOVE IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION, BUT YOU KNOW, IF THEY COULD TAKE ANOTHER TWO HOURS, THAT'D BE GREAT.
IF YOU THINK ABOUT FLIPPING THAT AROUND THE OTHER WAY, IT MIGHT BE WAY, WAY BETTER.
AND MAYBE, MAYBE THEY WOULD HAVE MORE BECAUSE IT'S FLATTER ON THE OTHER SIDE.
MAYBE THEY'D HAVE MORE ROOM, UH, FOR A FEW, YOU KNOW, STAYING WITH 19, I DON'T KNOW.
BUT, UH, THE TRAFFIC SITUATION IS GOING TO BE HORRIBLE.
UM, AND, UH, THE SCHOOL YOU MENTIONED ABOUT THE SCHOOL, IF THEY BUILT A SCHOOL THERE, THERE'S ALREADY FOUR SCHOOLS IN THE AREA WITHIN NOT EVEN A MILE.
WELL, I GOT TO TELL YOU, I WAS AT THE OPENING OF A NEW CHARTER SCHOOL LAST NIGHT AND THEY WERE ASKING ME, DO YOU KNOW ANYWHERE WE COULD BUILD A LARGE SCHOOL? SO BELIEVE ME, THERE'S PEOPLE THAT WANT TO BUILD.
THERE'S MONEY IN CHARTER SCHOOLS THESE DAYS.
YEAH, BUT THAT'S YOUR JOB TO NOT LET HIGH DENSITY TRAFFIC EXISTS.
SO I DON'T SEE HOW YOU COULD APPROVE A SCHOOL.
WELL, WHAT WOULD IT TRY TO SAY IS THAT THESE PLACES ARE ZONED FOR CERTAIN THINGS AND WE'RE ENTERING INTO A PHASE IN CALIFORNIA HISTORY WHERE WE MAY NOT EVEN HAVE THE ABILITY TO STOP BUILDING THAT.
THERE'S, THERE ARE PROPOSALS RIGHT NOW IN THE STATE LEGISLATURE THAT SAYS THAT IF YOU WANT TO BUILD A LOW INCOME APARTMENT COMPLEX, THREE TO SIX STORIES TALL, THAT YOU CAN DO ANYWHERE YOU WANT AS LONG AS THIS CALIFORNIA STATE, CALIFORNIA STATE OFFICE AGREES TO IT, IT TAKES A COMPLETELY OUT OF THE HANDS OF, OF, OF THE CITY.
SO IF, IF IT WERE ME, I'D WANT, I'D WANT TO BUILD ON THOSE, THOSE LOTS.
SOMETHING BEFORE THE, BEFORE THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA CAR STARTS COMING INTO.
I'M NOT AT ALL AGAINST HAVING HOUSES THERE.
THAT'S EXERCISE COULD BE BETTER.
AND IF YOU, IF YOU LOOK AT THE TOPOGRAPHY OF THE LAND, I THINK THEY'D DO BETTER IF IT WAS FLIPPED AROUND AND THE EXIT WAS ON GREENFIELD.
I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S POSSIBLE
[01:20:01]
FROM AN ENGINEERING STANDPOINT ABOUT THE GREENFIELD.TONY, YOU WANT TO WEIGH ON THAT OR IS THAT TOO COMPLICATED? I THINK IT'D BE BETTER IF THE APPLICANT TO COMMENT ON THAT, BUT I THINK THEY'VE ALREADY HAVE SIGNIFICANT CIVIL, UM, SIGNIFICANT IMPROVEMENTS ON THE GREENFIELD SIDE OF THEIR, OF THE COLLEGE.
WELL, THEY WERE ABLE TO BUILD THE PARKING LOT, YOU KNOW, I APPRECIATE, WE'LL WILL, THEY'RE HERE OR THERE, THEY'LL SAY THANK YOU.
YOU GOT LOTS OF GOOD IDEAS AND I APPRECIATE IT.
YOU KNOW, BILL, THERE WAS A COMMENT ABOUT HOW WE COULD APPROVE A SCHOOL IF IT'S ALREADY ZONED FOR A SCHOOL, SOMEBODY IS ALREADY ENTITLED TO BUILD A SCHOOL THERE AREN'T THEY? WE DON'T NEED, WE DON'T HAVE A SAY.
THAT'S THE COUNCIL ALREADY PROVED THIS.
YOU ALREADY SAID THERE COULD BE A SCHOOL THERE.
SO WE WOULD HAVE TO, UH, CHANGE THE ZONING TO PROHIBIT A SCHOOL BEING THERE.
THAT'S A, IT'S AN INTERESTING THOUGHT PROCESS.
BUT WE'RE INSIDE OFF THE TABLE NOW.
GRAHAM, COULD WE CHECK THE AC PLEASE? YES, THANKS.
UH, MR MAYOR, YOU MAKE A GOOD POINT CAUSE IF ANYTHING I'VE BEEN READING ABOUT WHAT THE STATE IS DOING IS TO TAKE THE ABILITY OF LOCAL CITY COUNCILS TO TURN DOWN PROJECTS BECAUSE THEY WANT TO BUILD A WHOLE BUNCH OF LOW INCOME HOUSING ALL OVER CALIFORNIA.
SO SOMETIMES IT'S
I WOULDN'T WANT LOW INCOME HOUSING TO BE BUILT ON MY STREET.
EVERYBODY DOING OKAY? A BREAK OR YOU WANT TO KEEP MOVING THROUGH? ALL RIGHT, NEXT, NEXT.
NEXT SPEAKER IS MICHAEL MITCHELL.
2182 BROOKHURST DRIVE AND I'M HERE TO LET YOU KNOW THAT NOT EVERYBODY IS AGAINST THIS PROJECT.
UM, OUR FAMILY AND THERE'S A NUMBER OF OTHER FAMILIES ON THE STREET ON BROOKHURST THAT ACTUALLY ARE FOR THE PROJECT AND DO TOTALLY BELIEVE IN IT.
UM, THERE'VE BEEN A COUPLE OF THINGS THAT ACTUALLY I JUST WANT TO ADDRESS.
LITERALLY THE LAST PERSON YOU JUST TALKED ABOUT A COMPROMISE.
WELL, THE FIRST THING IS THE CHURCH HAS ALREADY MADE THE COMPROMISE BECAUSE THE NEW PROJECT THAT THE NEW THINGS THAT THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT, THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT THEM BEING NOT LOW DENSITY BUT LOW, LOW DENSITY.
WHICH ACTUALLY MEETS HIS REQUIREMENT.
I DON'T KNOW IF YOU HEARD IT EARLIER, JOEL SAID EARLIER.
WE WOULD BE VERY AMENABLE TO WHEN THE HOUSES WERE ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE STREET LOOKING AT THEM ALL BEING ONE STORY.
THAT'S THE SAME, THE COMPROMISE BASED ON WHAT THEY'VE DONE BEFORE THEY'RE COMING BACK.
I HONESTLY BELIEVE THEY'RE TRYING TO DO EVERYTHING IN THEIR POWER TO MAKE THIS AS, AS AMENABLE AS POSSIBLE TO THE NEIGHBORHOOD.
AND I JUST, I THINK IT IS A, UM, A GOOD PROJECT, A GOOD PROJECT FOR EVERYTHING.
WE TEACH INSURANCE, REAL ESTATE SECURITIES.
THE REALITY IS YOU'RE GOING TO PUT NEW HOUSING THAT'S GOING TO MEET A THIRD ACRE TO A HALF ACRE THINGS.
THE HOUSE VALUES ARE GOING TO GO UP.
THEY'RE GOING TO BE BRAND NEW HOUSES AROUND THE BLOCK FROM YOU.
YOUR HOUSE PRICES ARE GOING UP.
THAT'S WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN.
LET'S TALK ANOTHER THING A LITTLE BIT ABOUT REALITY.
THE AVERAGE PERSON, IF YOU GO DOWN THE STREET RIGHT NOW, HOW MANY PEOPLE IN THIS CAN DRIVE BY IN FRONT OF A LOT AND TELL YOU WHETHER THAT IS A THIRD ACRE LOT OR A HALF ACRE LOT? REALITY IS YOU CAN'T, YOU DON'T KNOW THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A HUNDRED FOOT FRONTAGE AND 110 FOOT FRONTAGE.
PEOPLE ARE SAYING THIS BECAUSE IT ALL SOUNDS, IT'S THE PANIC.
SOMETHING NEW IS GOING TO HAPPEN AND THEY DON'T WANT NEW.
THAT'S, THAT'S IT'S HUMAN NATURE TO NOT LIKE CHANGE, BUT THIS IS REALITY.
THE CHURCH IS GOING TO TRY TO GET AS MUCH OUT OF IT AS THEY POSSIBLY CAN.
THE REALITY IS, LIKE YOU SAID EARLIER, IT'S BETTER TO SEE THE PROBLEM THAT YOU MAY HAVE COMING.
IT'S BETTER TO KNOW WHAT'S COMING THEN THE POTENTIAL OF WHAT'S NOT COMING, WHAT'S YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT, ABOUT LOW INCOME HOUSING.
THAT AREA RIGHT THERE WOULD BE A PRAWN.
PEOPLE ARE GOING TO COME IN THERE AND BUILD, STACK UP THOSE SIX STORY APARTMENT BUILDINGS LIKE THAT AND THAT WOULD JUST BE ABSOLUTELY HORRIBLE AND I WOULD DEFINITELY NOT LIKE TO SEE THAT.
ANY QUESTIONS? YOU HAVE QUESTIONS? WELL THANKS SIR.
UM, WE'RE GOING TO TAKE A FIVE MINUTE BREAK AND OF COURSE TRY TO KEEP IT RIGHT TO FIVE MINUTES AND WE'LL COME BACK AND CONTINUE WITH THIS.
[01:25:02]
BY CALLING THE NEXT SPEAKER PLEASE.WE HAVE TWO MORE SPEAKERS AND NEXT ONE IS OWL MASTERS.
LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, OUR MASTERS WE'RE GOING TO GET, WE'RE GOING TO GO AHEAD AND CONTINUE THE MEETING NOW.
IS MR MASTERS HERE TO SPEAK?
JUST THREE VERY SIMPLE LITTLE BROAD GENERAL POINTS OF WHICH HAD BEEN PARTIALLY ADDRESSED THIS EVENING.
UH, NO ONE REALLY KNOWS WHAT THE IMPACT OF A DECREASED IN LOT SIZE.
NO ONE REALLY KNOWS WHAT IMPACT THAT WILL HAVE ON THE VALUE OF OUR HOME.
YOU CAN DEBATE IT, WHATEVER, BUT NO ONE REALLY KNOWS.
UH, I MYSELF AM POUNDING ON THAT HOME TO FUND A SIGNIFICANT PART OF OUR ASSISTED LIVING AND OR LONGTERM CARE WHEN THE TIME COMES.
SO, UH, I CAN'T TELL YOU THAT A HOME WOULD BE WORTH LESS.
I CAN'T TELL YOU THAT IT WOULD BE WORTH MORE.
IT'S BEEN SUGGESTED IT'S GOING TO BE WORTH A LOT.
THE ISSUE OF CONGESTION HAS BEEN ADDRESSED SOMEWHAT, UH, COMING UP MADISON AVENUE AT EIGHT O'CLOCK IN THE MORNING TO GREENFIELD AND OUT TO THE FREEWAY.
IT'S BEEN, IT'S BEEN SAID, I BELIEVE IF I HEARD RIGHT, THAT TWO LANES ARE GOING TO BE ADDED TO MADISON AVENUE.
I WONDER IF THEY'RE GOING TO BE ON THE GROUND OR UP IN THE AIR SOMEPLACE CAUSE I DON'T SEE HOW IT UH, HOW MADISON AVENUE CAN TAKE TWO MORE LANES.
ANYWAYS, I I, MY CONCERN IS INCREASED IN CONJUNCTION CONGESTION BECAUSE OF ADDITIONAL, UH, POPULATION IN THAT AREA.
AND LAST BUT NOT LEAST, SOME TIME AGO, I THINK IT WAS 2004 WE WEREN'T LIVING THERE.
I THINK WE MOVED IN SOMETIME AFTER THAT THAT PROPERTY WAS REZONED TO HALF ACRE LOTS.
THE PARTIES INVOLVED MADE A DEAL.
I KINDA THINK THE PARTIES SHOULD ADHERE TO THEIR AGREEMENT.
IT MAINTAINED THE EXISTING LOAN ZONING AS IT NOW IS.
PLEASE DON'T ASK ME ANY QUESTIONS BECAUSE I WON'T BE ABLE TO ANSWER.
OUR LAST SPEAKER IS THE WEST WARREN.
I'M NOT OPPOSED AS MUCH AS I AM CONCERNED ABOUT THE VIEW.
THE ORIGINAL, WHEN I BOUGHT THE HOME, I BOUGHT IT FIVE YEARS AGO.
I KNEW THAT IT WAS DISCLOSED THAT THEY COULD BE PUTTING SIX HOMES BACK THERE.
SIX HOMES AND ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I APPRECIATE THE SHADOW MOUNTAIN IS SAYING THEY'RE GOING TO DO IS THEY'RE GOING TO BUILD A WALL.
THE ONE RIGHT NEXT TO ME, I'M DOWN IN THE CORNER OF THE OF THE SIDE ON THE SOUTH SIDE, BUT YOU KNOW THERE'S THE PARKING LOT.
MY NEIGHBOR THAT HAS THE WALL RIGHT BEHIND IT, THEY DID A GREAT JOB AS FAR AS PUTTING THE WALL, THEY'RE PUTTING UP SOME PALM TREES, PALM TREES THERE AND STUFF.
I'M JUST CONCERNED ABOUT THE VIEW.
IF I'VE GOT HOMES THAT ARE GOING TO BE LOOKING DOWN AT ME, IT'S JUST NOT ACCEPTABLE.
IF THEY BUILD, I'VE GOT A LOT OF A PROPERTY ON THE OTHER SIDE OF MY FENCE THAT IS THAT I HAD TO ALLOW FOR THE DRAINAGE DITCH OR WHATEVER THEY SAY THEY'RE GOING TO TAKE CARE OF THAT.
I COULD CARE LESS ABOUT THAT PROPERTY CAUSE I HAVE A FENCE NOW.
BUT IF THEY'RE GOING TO BUILD THE WALL AND THEY'RE GOING TO MAKE IT WHERE THE OTHER HOMES CAN'T BE LOOKING INTO MINE, I WOULD BE IN AGREEMENT.
SO THAT, I'M JUST HOPING THAT THEY WILL STILL RECONSIDER THE NUMBER OF HOMES.
CAUSE RIGHT NOW THERE'S GOING TO BE TWO HOMES BEHIND ME.
[01:30:01]
AND I HAD OTHER HOUSES LOOKING DOWN INTO YOUR PROPERTY.UM, IF UM, THE SHELL MOUNTAIN PEOPLE WERE IN AGREEMENT TO MAKE THE HOUSES ALL ONE STORY, WOULD THAT UH, BE A COMPROMISE THAT YOU CAN LIVE WITH? THAT WOULD BE FINE WITH ME AS LONG AS LONG AS THE ELEVATION IS SUCH WHERE THEY'RE NOT RIGHT, RIGHT THERE BEHIND ME.
THEY'RE GOING TO, I DON'T KNOW HOW THEY'RE GOING TO DO THE GRADING AND STUFF BACK THERE.
THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE TO BE VERY CREATIVE.
I'LL HAVE TO TALK TO THE ENGINEER.
I DON'T, I DON'T KNOW THE ANSWER TO THAT QUESTION BUT AT LEAST WE HAVE SOME, SOME, A ROOM TO WORK WITH NOW.
BUT I'M ALL IN FAVOR OF THE WALL.
ANY QUESTIONS? NO, THAT'S, THAT'S GOOD.
YOU GOT SOME OTHER PEOPLE WHO AGREE WITH YOU ON THAT ONE.
YOU'RE GOING TO BE ON THE FRONT PAGE OF THE NEWSPAPER TOMORROW MORNING NOW.
SO IS THAT THE END OF UH, NO MORE SPEAKERS? NO MORE SPEAKERS.
WELL THEN I'M GONNA MAKE A MOTION TO CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING.
SECOND MOVE THE SECOND POLICE VOTE.
ALRIGHT COUNSEL, WE CAN DISCUSS IT AT SOME POINT.
I'D LIKE TO ASK THE, THE APPLICANTS TO COME BACK UP AND UH, I'VE GOT A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS FOR THEM, BUT UH, DID YOU HAVE ANYTHING YOU WANTED TO DISCUSS BEFORE WE DID THAT? ONCE YOU HAVE YOUR APPLICANTS THAT COME UP AND WE'LL ALL HEAR IT BEFORE THE DISCUSSION, I THINK THAT MAKES SENSE.
UM, LET'S START WITH, UH, THE, THE GENTLEMAN WAS THE ENGINEER.
I ALSO HAVE A COMMENT, I THINK OUT OF FAIRNESS, IF WE GIVE THE APPLICANT ONE LAST CHANCE TO SPEAK TO WHAT THEY'VE HEARD, WE SHOULD HAVE MET ANYBODY WHO, WHO HAS A DIFFERENT OPINION TO HAVE.
SO BOTH SIDES HAVE AN EQUAL, I AGREE WITH THAT.
AND WE DON'T FORM OVER FUNCTION HERE.
IF SOMEBODY HAS SOMETHING TO SAY, AS LONG AS WE CAN KEEP ORDERING THAT I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH, WE MIGHT WANT TO LIMIT THAT TO REPRESENTATIVE FOR THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE A DIFFERENT POINT OF VIEW.
I DON'T KNOW IF, IF WE GET BACK, IF EVERYBODY WANTS TO DO THE THING AGAIN.
I HAVE TO DO SOMETHING BY BEFORE TOMORROW MORNING.
BUT UH, IF A COUPLE OF YOU WANT TO GET UP AND SPEAK, THAT'S FINE.
DO WE NEED TO REOPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING IF WE WOULD HAVE TO REOPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING IF WE DID THAT, BUT FOR RIGHT NOW WE CAN, WE CAN CALL THE APPLICANT BACK UP.
UM, ACTUALLY, UH, PASTOR STOWE, I'LL MAKE A MOTION TO REOPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING AT THIS POINT SO THAT EVERYTHING THAT THEY SAY IS PART OF THE PUBLIC HEARING.
IS THAT THE BEST THING? ALL RIGHT, I SECOND THAT MOTION AND LET'S VOTE ON THAT.
MOTION CARRIES BY UNANIMOUS VOTE OF THOSE PERSON.
SO YOU MIGHT JUST MAKE MORE SENSE TO HAVE MR. SNOW AND I'M SORRY, I FORGOT YOUR NAME, SIR.
MY MAKES SENSE HOW YOU BOTH COME UP
SO ONE OF THE THINGS I'M DISGUST WAS UM, HOUSES THAT CAN LOOK DOWN FROM, FROM WHERE THEY'RE GOING TO BE BUILT INTO OTHER PEOPLE'S PROPERTY.
WE'RE TALKING ABOUT ONCE ARE HOUSES AND TWO STORY HOUSES.
YOU HAVE ANY THOUGHTS ON THAT AND I'M SURE THE ENGINEER WOULD BE ABLE TO TELL US MORE ABOUT THAT.
WE ACTUALLY DID PREPARE A CROSS SECTIONS OF PRETTY MUCH EVERY BROKER'S PROPERTY THAT INTERSECTS WITH THE SOUTHERLY PROPERTY.
THAT ONE RIGHT THERE WAS TAKEN IS ACTUALLY SHOWN ON A 10 AMOUNT.
TONY, DO YOU ALSO HAVE THE CROSS SECTIONS THAT WE SUBMITTED INDIVIDUALLY FOR EACH HOME? OKAY.
THAT ONE IS KIND OF A GENERAL CASE.
AS YOU COULD SEE AT THE FAR RIGHT SIDE, THE BROKER'S HOMES ARE DOWN LOWER ANYWHERE FROM FIVE TO 15 FEET BELOW.
UH, THERE IS SOMEWHAT OF A SETBACK BETWEEN THEIR REAR, THE REAR OF THEIR HOUSE AND THE PROPERTY LINE.
THEN WE HAVE A ABOUT A 10 FOOT AREA THAT'S A WALL, BROWN STITCH LANDSCAPING AND HAVE A 30 FOOT WIDE STREET.
YOU HAVE ANOTHER A F I THINK IT'S FOUR FEET ON THE OTHER SIDE.
YOU GO UP A SLOPE FOR A FRONT SETBACK.
SO YOU HAVE A GOOD UH, PROBABLY 50 FEET BETWEEN THE PROPOSED WALL AND WHERE A NEW HOME WOULD GO.
SO IT'S A PRETTY GENEROUS SETBACK ALREADY.
THE 50 FEET, NOT TO MENTION THAT THE BROKER'S TOMS ARE PROBABLY ANOTHER ANYWHERE FROM 20 TO 50 FEET ON THE OTHER SIDE.
SO YOU COULD HAVE ANYWHERE BETWEEN 70 AND A HUNDRED FEET BETWEEN THESE HOMES AND WITH A DIFFERENT SNELL ELEVATION WITH THE WALL.
UM, THERE PROBABLY AREN'T A LOT OF INSTANCES WHERE SOMEONE WOULD BE ABLE TO STAND ON THEIR LOT AND LOOK DOWN INTO THE BROOKHURST LOT.
NOW MAYBE IF THEY GOT ON THE ROOF IT MIGHT BE A DIFFERENT STORY.
AND SPEAKING OF THAT, A PESTER SNOW, COULD I ASK YOU A QUESTION? UM, ONE OF THE COMPROMISE SUGGESTED BY SEVERAL PEOPLE ON SHU HEARD WAS THE POSSIBILITY OF NOT HAVING SOME TWO STORY HOUSES, BUT HAVING THEM ALL BE A ONE STORY HOME.
SO DO YOU HAVE ANY THOUGHTS ON THAT? WE WOULD BE OPEN TO THAT ON THE SIDE WHERE THE VIEW IS AN ISSUE.
UM, ON THE NORTH SIDE THAT'S NOT ISSUE.
IT'S A FLAT PARCEL, RELATIVELY FLAT PARCEL AND UH, AND, AND
[01:35:01]
THERE ARE NO PRIVACY CONCERNS THERE, BUT ON THE SOUTH SIDE, UM, WE WOULD BE WILLING TO UH, AGREE TO THAT IN EXCHANGE FOR THE HIGHER DENSITY.ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? COULD YOU FURTHER, UH, UH, BLOCK THE VIEW WITH UH, TREES AND OTHER KIND OF, IS THERE ENOUGH ROOM BETWEEN, UH, THE, THE BATON, THE MASONRY WALL THAT YOU COULD PUT TREES THERE TOO? I'M HEARING SOME QUESTIONS ABOUT, I MEAN, JUST FOR CLARITY, WHAT WE NEED TO KEEP ORDER.
SO WE'LL, WE'LL, I'LL BRING PEOPLE BACK FROM THE PUBLIC JUST TO CLARIFY.
SEE I SAID, I SAID IN EXCHANGE FOR THE HIGHER DENSITY, I'M SAYING IN EXCHANGE FOR WHAT WE'RE PROPOSING TONIGHT.
I UNDERSTAND YOU'RE NOT EVEN BORING.
I ASKED HIM TO GO BACK TO THE 23.
THAT, THAT MAKE ME CRAZY TO DO THAT TONIGHT.
SO I DON'T KNOW IF I'M QUESTIONING, IS TRADITIONAL LANDSCAPING? YES.
COULD THAT BE USED TO BLOCK VIEWS? THERE IS ROOM FOR TREES.
WELL THERE'S, THERE'S A WAY THAT WE COULD, I THINK THAT WOULD CONTEXTUALLY INCREASE THE HEIGHT OF THE WALL WITHOUT MAKING IT CONCRETE.
YOU CAN MAKE IT FOLIAGE AND MR GALVIN, WOULD YOU NOT AGREE THAT THAT WOULD ONLY BE REQUIRED IN THE SPECIFICS SITUATION WHERE THAT WOULD BE A PROBLEM? WELL I THINK WE'RE TRYING TO ADDRESS THE CONCERN THAT YOU DON'T WANT SOMEBODY LOOKING DOWN ON YOU.
I'M GOING TO GIVE YOU ALL A CHANCE TO TALK.
IF YOU COULD JUST MAINTAIN FOR JUST A MOMENT, WE'LL UH, WE'LL GET TO YOU.
I'M TRYING TO ADDRESS THE CONCERN ABOUT LOOKING DOWN INTO SOMEBODY'S EXISTING BACKYARD AND CERTAINLY WE'VE SEEN THIS KIND OF THING HERE AND REDUCING IT FROM TWO STORIES INTO ONE STORY.
I'M JUST TRYING TO PUT ALL THE OPTIONS ON THE TABLE AND MAYBE THERE ARE TREES BETWEEN HOUSES OR BACKYARD IN A HOUSE WHICH COULD PROVIDE AN ADDITIONAL LAYER OF VISUAL BLOCKAGE.
DO YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT I'M SAYING? YES SIR.
I WAS JUST SAYING, I WOULD SUGGEST THAT WE ONLY REQUIRE THAT WHEN IT WAS OBVIOUSLY THAT WAS A PROBLEM CAUSE HE SAID THAT THERE WOULD BE VERY FEW LOTS WHERE YOU COULD ACTUALLY SEE IN SOMEBODY ELSE'S HOUSE WITHOUT STANDING ON THE ROOF.
WE WOULD REQUIRE THAT WHEN WE KNOW THAT IT COULD POTENTIALLY BE AN ISSUE.
SO ANY QUESTIONS? GARY? ANY QUESTIONS? NO, JONATHAN, THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
ALL RIGHT, SO THE PUBLIC HEARING IS BACK OPEN.
UM, DOES ANYBODY LIKE TO COME UP AND, AND, AND SPEAK TO WHAT WE WERE JUST TALKING ABOUT, SIR? GO AHEAD.
THERE WAS NO MENTION OF BEFORE OF THE ON THE WEST, UH, WHERE THEY BUILT A PARKING LOT.
THE WALL THAT THEY PUT IN THERE.
I MEAN THAT WAS VERY, UH, IT MADE IT VERY PRIVATE FOR THE OWNERS THAT WERE LIVING BACK BEHIND THERE.
AND I DON'T KNOW HOW HIGH THAT WALL, YOU KNOW HOW HIGH THAT WALL IS, TONY, DO YOU KNOW HOW TY THAT WALL, IT'S LIKELY NO HIGHER THAN SIX FEET? YES.
GENTLEMEN, GENERALLY SIX FEET IS WHAT WE REQUIRE IN THESE, THESE INSTANCES.
SO IT WOULD BE SIMILAR TO THE ONE THAT THEY'RE PROPOSING ON THIS, ON YOUR PROPERTY.
THAT THAT WALL IS CONSIDERABLY HIGHER FROM MY PERSPECTIVE FROM MY PROPERTY.
SO, AND I AM RIGHT ADJACENT TO IT SO, AND THEY PUT UP NICE PALM TREES TO MAKE IT IN THE IT'S COLORED AND STUFF TO GO ACROSS.
I THINK THERE WOULDN'T BE ANY KIND OF A PROBLEM IF SOMETHING LIKE THAT IS PUT UP BY, IT WOULDN'T HURT THE VIEW OF THE PEOPLE LOOKING TOWARDS US NOR US TOWARDS THEM.
I COMMEND YOU ON YOUR ABILITY TO COMPROMISE.
I'M GLAD MY SUGGESTION HIT A RING ABOUT SINGLE STORY HOMES THERE.
THE OTHER ONE YOU DIDN'T TALK ABOUT IS FLIPPING IT AND HAVING, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE THE TRAFFIC DENSITY YOU'RE GOING TO ADD TO MADISON IS GOING TO BE A HUGE AMOUNT.
WE DIDN'T HAVE SOME ABOUT THAT.
I COULD DO THAT IF YOU, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE MAYBE THEY COULD EVEN GET BACK TO UM, 20 HOUSES IF THEY HAVE MORE, YOU KNOW, MAYBE, I DON'T KNOW.
LET ME, LET ME, LET ME ASK SPECIFICALLY ABOUT THE, ABOUT THE POSSIBLE, ABOUT THE EGRESS ONTO THE OTHER STREET.
I APPRECIATE, UM, COULD SOMEBODY COME UP AND ADDRESS THAT QUESTION PLEASE? YEAH.
UM, RIGHT NOW OUR LEGAL ACCESS IS OUT ONTO MADISON, SO I THINK THAT'S WHY THAT WAS CHOSEN AS THE, UM, THE ACCESS POINT FOR THE SUBDIVISION.
UH, IT MAKES MORE SENSE TO GO OUT THAT DIRECTION.
AND UH, WE ORIGINALLY, SOMEONE DID MENTION EARLIER ABOUT HAVING THE TWO STREETS ALIGNED WITH EACH OTHER.
WE DID HAVE THAT ORIGINALLY, BUT THAT'S WHEN I HAD SAID THAT THE, THE NEIGHBOR THAT OWNED THAT EASEMENT AND THE NORTH DIDN'T LIKE THAT HIS EASEMENT WAS BEING RELOCATED.
THAT'S WHEN WE SHIFTED THAT INTERSECTION.
SO IT WAS AN OFFSET INTERSECTION NOW.
SO THAT'S KIND OF WHY THAT ENDED UP THE WAY IT IS.
BUT, UH, IT'S BEEN A LOT OF DISCUSSION ABOUT THE TRAFFIC AND THE CONGESTION.
[01:40:01]
DONE, THE TRAFFIC STUDY, ANALYZE THE EXISTING TRAFFIC CONCERNS OUT THERE NOW PLUS WHAT THEY WOULD BE LIKE WITH THE PROPOSED PROJECT THERE.AND THEY ENDED UP, AND I'LL ACTUALLY, I WROTE THIS DOWN, A SUMMARY OF WHAT THEY SAID IS THAT, UH, ANALYSIS OF THE PROJECT IMPACTS FOUND THAT THEIR PROJECT DOES NOT CREATE ANY SIGNIFICANT IMPACTS ON THE ROADWAYS AND INTERSECTIONS ANALYZED.
SO I BELIEVE STAFF HAS THAT SAME TRAFFIC STUDY AND YOU COULD ASK THEM AS WELL THEIR, UH, FEELINGS ON HOW THE TRAFFIC STUDY WAS PERFORMED.
UM, WE'VE DONE THIS A FEW TIMES AND, UH, THIS, THIS IS AN ISSUE THAT OFTEN COMES UP AND, UM, PEOPLE FEEL LIKE IT'S GOING TO BE A BIG PROBLEM UNTIL AFTER IT'S BUILT.
AND WE'VE LEARNED TO RELY UPON THE TRAFFIC STUDIES THAT THEY'RE USUALLY PRETTY ACCURATE AS TO WHAT HAPPENS.
I LIVE ON A 1884 EAST MADISON.
UM, SO, UH, CAN YOU BRING UP THE, THE, THE MAP THAT SHOWS THE TWO DIFFERENT, UH, LIKE THE GOOGLE MAP? SO I LIVE, I LIVE RIGHT WHERE THE UPPER ARROW IS.
SO IT RUNS ALMOST HALF OF THAT WHITE LINE THAT RUNS THERE.
SO MY PROPERTY IS GOING TO HAVE A SIX FOOT WALL RUN, RAN ALL THE WAY DOWN IT.
MY BIGGEST CONCERN RIGHT NOW IS, SO IF YOU LOOK FROM GRANITE HILLS DOWN TO THAT ARROW, ALMOST ALL THE WATER FROM ALL THE, THE HOMES RUN RIGHT IN ONTO THAT EASEMENT.
NOW, I DON'T KNOW WHAT GRADING, IF THEY'RE GOING TO LIFT IT OR LOWER IT, BUT A LOT OF WATER RUNS THROUGH MY PROPERTY, RUNS DOWN THAT EASEMENT AND ENDS UP AT THE, WHERE THE NEW ROADS GOING TO BE.
MY BIGGEST CONCERN IS THAT ONCE THAT WALL IS UP, I KNOW THERE'S GONNA BE, THERE'S A BROW DITCH, BREAKAWAY.
I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S ON THE, IN MY PROPERTY OR ON THE OTHER SIDE.
MY WHOLE YARD IS GOING TO BE FLOODED.
HELLO? LET ME, LET'S, LET'S CHECK ON THAT CAUSE I KNOW THAT THEY'VE LOOKED INTO THAT.
UM, SO WHY DON'T YOU WANT TO ADDRESS IT? WELL, I'M GOING TO HAVE TO DEFER TO THE, UH, PROJECT CIVIL AND, UM, STAFF THAT IS FAMILIAR WITH THAT, THE DRAINAGE.
UM, THE OTHER CONCERN IS I KNOW THERE'S SIDEWALKS COMING IN AND A LOT OF THE WATER COMES ACROSS GREENFIELD OR AROUND GREENFIELD ON THE MADISON AND THE CURB ENDS ON MY EASEMENT.
MY EASEMENT IS, YOU KNOW, UM, EAST OF THE PROPOSED NEW ROAD, THAT WATER JUST TRICKLES ACROSS THE, THE YARD IN FRONT OF ME AND THEN RUNS ALL THE WAY THROUGH.
LIKE IT JUST KIND OF FLOODS ALL INTO THERE.
SO THOSE ARE ALL MY BIG CONCERNS ABOUT THE LOGISTICS OF WE START LIVING THEN EVERYTHING UP.
MOSTLY ABOUT FLOODING OUT OF YOUR PROPERTY.
WELL LET'S, LET'S LAST THE CIVIL ENGINEER ABOUT THAT AND UM, WE'LL GO FROM THERE.
IS IT POSSIBLE TO BRING UP CHEAT TOO? I'M SORRY.
SHE, THREE OF THE TENTATIVE MAP IN THE UPPER LEFT HAND CORNER OF THAT CROSS-SECTION.
WELL THAT'S PART OF THE PRESENTATION.
THE POWERPOINT HERE, WE ONLY HAVE UM, THE, FROM THE TENTATIVE MAP, THE PROPOSED LOTS AND THE ONE CROSS SECTION.
YOU CAN KIND OF SEE IT THERE JUST IN THE UPPER LEFT CORNER, BUT THERE WILL BE A, THERE IS PROPOSED A PROJECT BOUNDARY WALL ALONG THE PROPERTY LINE WITH A BROW DITCH ON THE PROJECT SIDE.
THERE WILL BE OPENINGS IN THE WALL THAT WILL ALLOW THEIR RUN OFF TO GET INTO THAT BROWN STITCH THOUGH THE OTHER OPTION IS TO PUT THE BROW DITCH ON THE OTHER SIDE, BUT THEN THAT PROPERTY OWNER WOULD HAVE TO MAINTAIN THAT.
SO TYPICALLY WE PUT THE BROW ON THE PROJECT SIDE, THE HOA WILL MAINTAIN THAT.
WE COULD HAVE OPENINGS IN THE WALL, THERE CAN BE A SCREEN COVERINGS TO KEEP ANIMALS OUT AND THINGS LIKE THAT.
SO, BUT THE RUN OFF IS, IS DESIGNED TO RUN THROUGH, GET THROUGH THE WALL INTO THE BROW DITCH.
AND THEN AS FAR AS OUT IN THE STREET, WE WILL BE PUTTING IN NEW CURB AND GUTTER ALONG THE PROJECT FRONTAGE.
THERE WILL ALSO BE DRAINAGE IMPROVEMENTS.
THERE'S GOING TO BE A CURB INLET RIGHT AT THE INTERSECTION OF STREET A AND THE LOWER RIGHT CORNER THERE AND MADISON AVENUE THAT'LL BE PICKING UP, UH, ALL THE RUNOFF COMING FROM, UH, MADISON.
AS YOU GO UP TOWARDS GREENFIELD.
SO THAT'S ALL BEEN ANALYZED IN THE PROJECT RANGE STUDY THAT WAS REVIEWED AND APPROVED BY THE ENGINEERING DEPARTMENT.
HOW CONFIDENT ARE YOU THAT THE UM, YOUR NEIGHBORS YARD WON'T BECOME FLOODED IN A FLOOD SITUATION? WELL, AS LONG AS THE, THE HOA IS MAINTAINING THE, THE DITCH AND THE OPENINGS THE WALL PROPERLY, THERE SHOULDN'T BE ANY ISSUES.
WHAT IF THE HOLES BACK UP FROM DEBRIS IN A HEAVY RAINSTORM? WHAT'S THE WORST CASE SCENARIO? DOES THE WATER RUN SOUTHERLY ALONG THE BOUNDARY WALL? UH, DOES IT BACK UP ONTO HIS YARD? WHAT,
[01:45:01]
YEAH, WE'D HAVE SOME SORT OF FAIL SAFE IN THAT.WE USUALLY ADD MORE OPENINGS THAN WHAT ARE NECESSARY FOR A A HUNDRED YEAR STORM.
SO WE'D ADD EXTRA HOLES, PLUS THERE'D BE TYPICALLY AT ONE END OR THE OTHER, THERE'LL BE AN OPENING THAT THE WATER COULD GET THROUGH SHOULD EVERYTHING ELSE BE PLUGGED.
SO IF SOMETHING'S PLUGGED, THE RADO WOULD JUST GO SOUTHERLY UNTIL IT FINDS AN OPEN HOLE.
AND YOU'RE SAYING WORST CASE SCENARIOS, YOU'VE GOT SO MANY HOLES BUILT IN, THEY'D ALL HAVE TO BE PLUGGED FOR HIM TO BACK UP INTO HIS RIGHT PROPERTY.
DO YOU FEEL CONFIDENT THAT'S THERE'S ENOUGH HOLES TO AVOID THAT? YEAH, WE, WE DESIGNED FOR A HUNDRED YEAR STORM AND THEN WE ADD EXTRA.
OKAY, WE'RE GETTING CLOSE TO THE, ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? ANYBODY? HAZARD STATEMENTS THEY WANT TO MAKE? YES SIR.
THE HOMEOWNERS ASSOCIATION, IF THAT WAS SOMETHING THAT THE RESIDENTS WOULD HAVE TO HAVE AND RUN OR IF IT'D BE SOMETHING LIKE WE HAVE A, WE HAVE A HOMEOWNERS ASSOCIATION, BUT IT'S NOT ACTIVE.
I WAS RUNNING, IF THAT ASSOCIATION HAS TO BE ACTIVE, THE REASON BEING THAT IF THE ASSOCIATION IS HACKED, IF THEY PROVIDE A LEVEL OF OVERSIGHT, UH, IF PEOPLE PARK THEIR CAR AND DROP THE TRANSMISSION OUT WORKING ON IT THERE, THAT WOULD BE A NO, NO, BUT IF IT'S, IF IT'S NOT A FORMALLY ORGANIZED AND THEN IT'S A HORSE OF A DIFFERENT COLOR.
AND I WAS WONDERING IF THE HOMEOWNERS ASSOCIATION HAS TO OPERATE, HAS AN OMANZ ASSOCIATION.
MY, UH, MY UNDERSTANDING, SIR, IS THAT THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT IT, WHAT IT IS.
IT WILL BE AN ACTIVE HOMEOWNERS ASSOCIATION AND THE RESIDENTS WILL HAVE NO CHOICE BUT TO BE PART OF THAT.
SO THEN WHO WOULD, WHO WILL BE THE END WITH THE DEVELOPERS BE THE INITIAL, UH, SO TO SPEAK.
UH, UH, YEAH, SO THE HOMEOWNERS ASSOCIATION HIRES A MANAGEMENT COMPANY THAT MANAGES IT FOR THEM.
QUITE A BIT OF DIFFERENCE, UH, IN, UH, THE PROPERTY BEING MAINTAINED IN A HOMEOWNER'S ASSOCIATION, YOU JUST CAN'T THROW GARBAGE OUT THE WINDOW AND YOU KNOW, THAT TYPE OF THING IS TRUE.
OKAY, GARY, JUST TO COMMENT, SIR, YOU MADE A GOOD POINT BECAUSE THE REASON I MOVED TO FLETCHER HILLS FROM A SANTEE WAS BECAUSE SOMEONE WAS THROWING GARBAGE OUT THE WINDOW RIGHT NEXT TO MY HOUSE AND DIAPERS AND THINGS.
BUT YOU KNOW, UH, MY EXPERIENCE HAS BEEN IN THE HOMEOWNERS.
EXOS ASSOCIATION KEEPS UP VALUES OF GUY.
NEXT DOOR MEET 15 YEARS AGO, PAINTED HIS HOUSE, EASTER EGG BLUE AND THE HOMEOWNER ASSOCIATION GOT ALL OVER MOUTH AND THEY HAD PAINTED THE EARTH CONES LIKE EVERYBODY ELSE DOES IN MY NEIGHBORHOOD.
SO THE HOMEOWNERS ASSOCIATIONS DO ADD VALUE AND PROTECTS THE NEIGHBORHOOD AND THE ADJACENT NEIGHBORHOODS.
ANYBODY ELSE? ALL RIGHT, I'M GOING TO MAKE A MOTION THEN THE CLOSE THE PUBLIC HARRY.
MOTION CARRIES BY UNANIMOUS VOTE OF THOSE PRESENTS.
WELL, I HAVE ONE MORE QUESTION FOR A PASTOR.
SO I HAVE THREE OFF OF THE PUBLIC HERE FOR THAT.
FOR A CORE, FOR A QUESTION? YEAH.
WELL THEY MAKE A MOTION TO REOPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING.
ANYBODY SECOND? OKAY, PLEASE VOTE.
WHAT WILL IT SAY? ALL RIGHT, WE GOT IT.
MOTION CARRIES BY UNANIMOUS VOTE OF THOSE PRESENT.
UM, YOU MENTIONED YOU'D BE COMFORTABLE WITH ONE STORY HOUSES ON WHICH SIDE? ON THE SOUTH SIDE.
THE SIDE THAT HAS THE HELL ONE STORY ONLY ON SOUTH SIDE.
HEY, YOU GOT THE QUESTIONS FOR THE PASTOR BEFORE I REALLY CLOSE THE PUBLIC, HARRY.
SEE, THAT'S WHAT I WAS AFRAID OF.
IT'S FROM KATHLEEN LINED LIVE ON THE CORNER OF MAPLE BROOK AND BROOKHURST AND I WANTED TO CLARIFY.
PASTOR SNOW SAID THAT HE WAS AGREEABLE TO THE ONE STORY FOR GREATER DENSITY AND I'D LIKE TO KNOW EXACTLY WHAT HE MEANS.
NOW WHAT DO WE ALREADY DISCUSSED? THAT WHAT HE,
[01:50:01]
WHAT HE SAID WAS THAT HE WAS NOT COMFORTABLE IN GOING LESS THAN THE 19 HOUSES, BUT HE IS COMFORTABLE WITH GOING ONE STORY.SO IT WASN'T AS, HE WASN'T ASKING FOR AN INCREASE, HE WAS JUST SAYING THAT HE WAS, HE, HE DIDN'T WANT TO NEGOTIATE AWAY THE THE DENSITY.
AND THAT'S 19 HOUSES COUNTING 10 ON THE EAST SIDE.
ALL RIGHT, I'M GOING TO MAKE A MOTION TO CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING FOR GOOD SECOND PLEASE VOTE MOTION CARRIES BY UNANIMOUS VOTE OF THOSE PRESENT.
WELL COUNCIL, IT'S UH, IT'S UP TO US.
I THINK IT SOUNDS TO ME LIKE WE'VE COME TO SOME KIND OF CONSENSUS AND I THINK PART OF THAT CONSENSUS WOULD BE UH, CHANGING.
UH, ON THE SOUTH SIDE THE HOUSING CAN ONLY BE ONE STORY.
UM, ANOTHER, UH, STIPULATION WOULD BE THAT IF THERE WAS INSTANCES WHERE A HOUSE ABOVE ANOTHER HOUSE, A HOUSE IN THE DEVELOPMENT ABOVE BROOKHURST COULD SEE INTO THAT YARD THAT THE APPLICANT WOULD BE AMENABLE TO PLANTING SOME TREES THERE TO GIVE THEM SOME PROTECTION FROM THAT.
OTHER THAN THAT, I THINK WE HAVE A DEAL AND THOUGHTS.
I THINK IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT WE PROTECT OUR SINGLE FAMILY NEIGHBORHOODS.
AND THE LAST THING I WANT TO SEE IS SOMETHING DRAG ON FOR A COUPLE OF YEARS WHERE THEY END UP SELLING IT TO A SCHOOL AND THEN YOU HAVE 300 STUDENTS PEERING OUT THE WINDOW LOOKING IN YOUR BACKYARDS.
AND THAT I, I, YOU KNOW, WHEN I BOUGHT MY HOUSE, UNFORTUNATELY IN FLETCHER HILLS, IT GOES UP TO JUST LIKE BRUKER'S DOES AND I'M ON THE BOTTOM.
AND WE HAD A GUY JUST LOOKING OVER, WATCHING THE KIDS IN MY POOL THE TIME, WHICH I DIDN'T LIKE.
BUT, UH, I, I THINK THE SINGLE STORY PROTECTS THAT.
I THINK THAT WALL PROTECTS THAT AND I THINK THE, UH, THE TREES WILL PROTECT THAT.
SO I THINK THIS IS A WIN FOR EVERYBODY.
AGAIN, MY, MY NIGHTMARE IS HIGH DENSITY, LOW INCOME HOUSING.
YOU KNOW, IN, UH, ONE OF THE BEST NEIGHBORHOODS IN TOWN.
YOU'RE RIGHT, IT'S, IT'S ONE OF THE TOP THREE NEIGHBORHOODS IN THE CITY, OKLAHOMA.
WE WANT TO KEEP IT THAT WAY, FOSTER THE REST OF THE COUNCIL.
SO I SAT BACK AND I LISTENED AND IT SOUNDS LIKE SHADOW MOUNTAIN DIDN'T GET EVERYTHING THAT THEY WANTED AND IT SOUNDS LIKE THE NEIGHBORS AND THE COMMUNITY DIDN'T GET EVERYTHING THAT THEY WANTED.
AND THAT SOUNDS LIKE MY MARRIAGE.
UM, AND THERE WAS GOOD BACK AND FORTH AND I, I HAVE TO REALLY UNDERLINE WHAT GARY AND BILL BROUGHT UP WITH REGARD TO THE STATE AND THE REGULATIONS THAT COULD POTENTIALLY COME DOWN WITH THEIR HIGH DENSITY, UM, REQUIREMENTS.
UH, WE'RE ALWAYS UNDER A LOT OF PRESSURE.
I THINK CAPITALIZING ON A COMPROMISE RIGHT NOW IS WISE FOR THE LONGTERM.
UM, AND I HOPE MOVING FORWARD THEY'RE GOING TO BE GOOD.
IT SOUNDS LIKE SHOUT OUT MOUNTAINS, TRYING TO BE A GOOD NEIGHBOR.
IT SOUNDS LIKE THE BROOKHURST CREW OVER THERE WANTS IT TO BE A WISE DECISION TO AND THERE'S SOME GIVE AND TAKE.
SO I'M REALLY PROUD OF MY COMMUNITY RIGHT NOW.
I DON'T LIVE IN GRANITE HILLS.
I WISH I COULD LIVE IN GRANITE HILLS.
I DON'T HAVE THE LUXURY OF HAVING THAT KIND OF AN INCOME, BUT UM, YEAH, JUST REINFORCES THAT.
WELL, I ASKED THE MOST QUESTIONS I THINK BECAUSE I REALLY WANTED TO UNDERSTAND, UH, THE APPLICANT'S POINT OF VIEW OR WANT TO UNDERSTAND THE RESIDENT'S POINT OF VIEW.
THIS MAY SEEM LIKE A LONG HEARING, BUT EVERYBODY DESERVES FULLY TO BE HEARD BECAUSE AS MR, UH, THE LAST GENTLEMAN WHO SPOKE MR MASTERS, THIS IS, THIS IS YOUR EXIT PLAN, YOU KNOW, THE VALUE OF YOUR HOME.
SO I THINK THAT'S, THAT'S A, I CAN SEE IT'S EMOTIONAL FOR YOU.
SO I THINK IT'S, IT'S IMPORTANT THAT WE, UH, UH, REALLY DIG DEEP INTO THIS.
I DON'T THINK THAT ZONING THIS TO OURS 14 SETS A DANGEROUS PRECEDENT.
I THINK WE KIND OF VETTED THAT.
UH, YOU'D HEARD ME TALK ABOUT THE WIDTH OF THE LOT.
UH, I DID HEAR A COMMENT ABOUT THE HOUSES SCRUNCHED.
UH, WE DID TALK ABOUT THE WIDTH BETWEEN THE HOUSES AND WE'VE KIND OF HAD SOME MORE UNDERSTANDING THERE.
UH, I THINK THE DEPTH IS THE DIFFERENCE HERE IN THIS CASE BETWEEN A THIRD ACRE AND A HALF ACRE, AND YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT 6,000 FEET ON THE BACK.
I ASKED THE APPLICANT, WHY DIDN'T YOU JUST EXTEND
[01:55:01]
THE LOTS BACKWARDS? AND HE SAID, WELL, ACTUALLY IT'S A HILL.AND THAT ESSENTIALLY BECOMES EITHER A GRADING ISSUE, WHICH YOU CAN'T DO OR IT BECOMES UNUSABLE LAND.
SO THEN THEY REALLY CAN'T SIT THAT'S ALMOST VALUELESS, HALF ACRE LAND IN A SENSE.
AND THAT WAS REASONABLE EXPLANATION TO ME WHY THEY CAN'T JUST GO DEEPER AND MAKE THEM HALF IT A HALF ACRES.
SO THE WIDTH OF A LOTS I THINK ARE SIMILAR ENOUGH IF THEY'RE, IF THEY'RE PROBABLY THE, THE STAFF, UH, THING THERE IS 20 FEET LONG.
IF THAT'S THE AVERAGE DISTANCE BETWEEN A LOTS, BOY THAT'S PRETTY DARN CLOSE WHEN YOU'RE LOOKING AT IT.
I DON'T KNOW THAT YOU COULD TELL THE DIFFERENCE.
THE AESTHETICS WE CAN REQUIRE A FUTURE UH, BUILDER CAUSE THERE ISN'T NO BUILDER ON THIS PROJECT.
WE CAN REQUIRE THEM TO MAKE THE DESIGN COMPATIBLE WITH THE SURROUNDING NEIGHBORHOOD.
UH, THEY CAN'T BUILD SPANISH, UM, UH, CLAY TILE ROOFS WHEN THAT IS NOT THE NEIGHBORHOOD AROUND THEM THAT, THAT WON'T HAPPEN WITH MY VOTE AT LEAST BECAUSE THAT DOES CHANGE THE CHARACTER OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD.
IT PUTS THE ODD MAN OUT AND THAT DOES MAKE IT WEIRD OUT THERE.
I'LL, I'LL, I WON'T VOTE FOR SOMETHING THAT LOOKS DIFFERENT THAN WHAT YOU ALREADY HAVE.
UH, THE CHURCH WANTING TO GET MORE MONEY.
I THINK I JUST SUBSTITUTE THE WORD, ANY BUILDER, THE FACT THAT IT HAPPENS TO BE A CHURCH IS COINCIDENTAL.
UH, I THINK ANY BUILDER WOULD SAY I WANT TO GET THE MOST MONEY THAT I CAN ECONOMICALLY.
I THINK MOST BUILDERS WOULD SAY I NEED TO MAKE THIS PENCIL OUT.
UH, IN TODAY'S WORLD OF COSTS.
WE WANT TO ATTRACT BUILDERS, BUILDING GOOD HOMES.
I THINK THE CERTAINTY OF HAVING HOMES INSTEAD OF WHAT IS ALREADY ENTITLED TO BE THERE A SCHOOL AND POTENTIALLY SELLING IT TO ANOTHER CHURCH OR, OR ORGANIZATION WHERE THERE'S ENTITLED TO BE DORMITORIES.
TWO STORY ENTITLED TO BE TWO STORIES LOOKING DOWN IN THE YARD THAT WE COULDN'T DO ANYTHING ABOUT.
UH, WELL I THINK THE CERTAINTY OF ONE STORY HOMES IS GOOD TO LOCK IN FOR YOU.
THE TRAFFIC STUDY, UH, WAS REFERENCED.
UH, MELISSA SENT A NOTE TO DON ROBINSON AND OUR FEAR AND YOU'RE HERE.
UH, AND ANGELA ON JULY 23RD OF THIS YEAR.
A TRAFFIC ANALYSIS WAS REPAIRED.
HOWEVER, THE DEVELOPMENT DOES NOT GENERATE ENOUGH DAILY TRIPS TO REQUIRE A TRAFFIC STUDY PER THE ITE GUIDELINES.
WE HAVE A STUDY IF YOU WANT TO COME AND VIEW IT.
SO IT'S GOT A SEPARATE STREET.
SO PEOPLE DRIVING INTO BROOKHURST, UH, AREN'T EFFECTED BY THE TRAFFIC COMING IN AND OUT OF, OF THE NORTH AND SOUTH LOT.
SO I, I THINK WE'RE ADDRESSING THAT.
WE'RE WIDENING, UH, MADISON TWO LANES, I ASSUME MEANS ONE ON EACH SIDE OF THE STREET, NOT TWO LANES ON THIS SIDE AND TWO LANES ON THIS SIDE.
SO I THINK THAT HELPS WITH SAFETY ISSUES AND SITE ISSUES.
UM, MAKING IT TWO STORIES DOWN TO ONE STORY, I THINK IS A GREAT COMPROMISE.
UH, TWO BECAUSE I HAVE A NEIGHBOR THAT LOOKS DOWN ON MY BACKYARD AND, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE A POOL AND WE HAVE KIDS AND WE'VE GOT DOGS AND HE CAN, YOU KNOW, SHOUT AT ME.
I SEE YOU CUTTING WOOD AND WHAT ARE YOU WORKING ON? WELL, I JUST DON'T WANT THAT KIND OF RELATIONSHIP WITH MY NEIGHBORS, SO WE'RE NOT GONNA, I'M NOT GONNA VOTE TO HAVE SOMEBODY DO THAT TO YOU.
UH, I THINK THESE HOUSES, UH, UH, ARE GOOD FOR THE COMMUNITY.
I DON'T KNOW THAT I COULD TELL THE DIFFERENCE.
TWO AND A HALF ACRE AND A THIRD ACRE ALSO.
SO I THINK GOING FROM LOWERING THE DENSITY, THE FACT THAT THEY'RE GOING TO LOOK SIMILAR, THE AESTHETICS CAN BE THE SAME.
WE'VE ADDRESSED THE WIDTH OF THE ROAD TWO STORY DOWN OR ONE.
THAT'S PROBABLY THE ONE, THE MOST IMPORTANT THINGS THAT YOUR PRIVACY ISN'T AFFECTED BECAUSE I THINK THAT WOULD AFFECT THE VALUE OF YOUR HOUSE.
I DON'T KNOW IF I WOULD WANT TO BUY YOUR HOUSE IF SOMEBODY IS LOOKING DOWN IN MY HOUSE.
SO THAT'S WHAT I TALKED ABOUT.
IF THAT'S WHAT IT TAKES TO BLOCK SOMEBODY LOOKING DOWN IN YOUR HOUSE, THAT'S WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN.
SO FOR THOSE REASONS, UH, I THINK WE HAVE A WIN ON THIS PROJECT AS A COMPROMISE BETWEEN EVERYBODY.
SO I AM IN FAVOR OF THE PROJECT.
I'D LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE, UH, THE NEXT RESOLUTION APPROVING THE MITIGATED NEGATIVE DECLARATION AND MITIGATION MONITORING AND REPORTING PROGRAM AND THE GENERAL PLAN AMENDMENT SECOND FOR UH, IF I MAY INTERRUPT.
JUST TO ENSURE, UM, WE MEET THE CITY COUNCIL'S EXPECTATIONS AS PART OF YOUR MOTION TO ADOPT THE NEXT RESOLUTION PROVEN THE TENTATIVE SUBDIVISION MAP THAT YOU LIMIT LOTS, ONE THROUGH 10 TO ONE STORY AND TO ENSURE EFFECTIVE SCREENING THAT ENHANCED LANDSCAPING WITH THE ADDITIONAL TREES BE ADDED WITHIN THE LANDSCAPE AREA ADJACENT TO THE MASONRY BLOCK WALL.
I WOULD INCLUDE THAT IN MY MOTION.
[02:00:01]
INCLUDE THAT IN MY SECOND.WE'RE ONLY ON THE SEQUEL RESOLUTION RIGHT NOW.
SO YOU MIGHT HAVE JUMPED YOUR GUN.
LET'S WAIT FOR THAT FOR THE TENTATIVE SUBDIVISION MAP MOTION.
WHY DON'T YOU GIVE ME A HIGH SIGN WHEN IT'S TIME TO DO THAT.
CAUSE THERE'S, I THINK SIX MOTIONS HERE THAT WE HAVE TO GO THROUGH.
BUT IF MY OTHER COLLEAGUES HAVE OTHER COMMENTS BEFORE WE VOTE, I DON'T THINK SO.
I THINK IT'S A, I THINK WE'VE TALKED IT THROUGH.
SO I'M MOVING TO ADOPT THE NEXT RESOLUTION APPROVING THE MITIGATION NEGATIVE DECLARATION.
I MOVED TO INTRODUCE THE NEXT ORDINANCE, A APPROVING THE ZONE RECLASSIFICATION AND SPECIFIC PLAN AMENDMENT.
MOTION CARRIES BY UNANIMOUS VOTE OF THOSE PRESENT.
YOU, YOU MOVED TO THE ORDINANCE SO THE CITY CLERK NEEDS TO READ THE TITLE OF THAT ORDINANCE.
YOUR MOTION WAS FOR THE ORDINANCE, WASN'T IT? TO INTRODUCE HIM? I'M READING OFF THE SCRIPT THERE.
THE TITLE IS, I'M AN ORDINANCE REZONING PROPERTY LOCATED ON THE SOUTH AND NORTH SIDES OF EAST MADISON AVENUE BETWEEN GREENFIELD AND GRANITE HILL DRIVES FROM THE RS 20 SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENTIAL MINIMUM 20,000 SQUARE FEET, LOTS TO THE RS.
14 SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENTIAL MINIMUM 14,000 SQUARE FEET LOTS.
APN IS FIVE ZERO EIGHT DASH ONE 20 DASH 18 AND FIVE 12 DASH ONE 30 DASH 35 PENDING GENERAL PLAN DESIGNATION, LOW LOW DENSITY RESIDENTIAL.
I THINK THAT MR UH, SHOOTS SLIDES KIND OF MELDED A COUPLE THINGS TOGETHER.
UM, IF YOU LOOK AT YOUR AGENDA, THERE ARE NUMBERED.
SO WHAT YOU'VE DONE IS NUMBER THREE AND NUMBER FIVE.
SO IF YOU COULD GET BACK TO NUMBER FOUR AND DOES NUMBER FOUR NEED TO HAVE THE, THE UH, QUALIFICATIONS? NO, IT'LL BE NUMBER SEVEN.
SO I'M DOING NUMBER FOUR, MOVE TO ADOPT THE NEXT RESOLUTION ORDER APPROVING THE GENERAL PLAN AMENDMENT NUMBER 2017 DASH OH THREE SECOND.
WELL IN SECOND PLACE, HUH? MOTION CARRIES BY UNANIMOUS VOTE OF THOSE PRESENT.
I MOVED TO INTRODUCE THE NEXT ORDINANCE IN ORDER APPROVING THE AMENDMENT TO SPECIFIC PLAN NUMBER FIVE 23 SECOND MOTION CARRIES BY UNANIMOUS VOTE OF THOSE PRESENT.
AND WITH YOUR PERMISSION I'LL READ THE TITLE FOR THAT.
AND ORDINANCE AMENDING SPECIFIC PLAN NUMBER FIVE TWO THREE TO REMOVE TWO EXCESS PROPERTIES LOCATED ON THE SOUTH AND NORTH SIDES OF EAST MADISON AVENUE BETWEEN GREENFIELD AND GRANITE HILL DRIVES FROM THE SHADOW MOUNTAIN COMMUNITY CHURCH SPECIFIC PLAN.
AND FINALLY I MOVED TO ADOPT THE NEXT RESOLUTION ORDER APPROVING THE TENTATIVE SUBDIVISION MAP NUMBER SIX 70, WITH THE ADDITIONAL REQUIREMENTS THAT LOTS ONE THROUGH 10 ARE LIMITED TO A SINGLE STORY AND THAT WHERE ANY LOCKED ONE THROUGH 10 LOOKS DOWN, UH, HAS A SIGHTLINE DOWN INTO AN EXISTING BACKYARD ON BROOKHURST SUBDIVISION THAT INCLUDE ADDITIONAL, UH, MITIGATING FACTORS TO INCLUDE FOLIAGE, LANDSCAPING, AND THEN TO BE MAINTAINED BY THE HOA MAINTAINED BY THE HOA.
MOTION CARRIES BY UNANIMOUS VOTE OF THOSE PRESENT.
WAS AN ENJOYABLE COUNCIL MEETING.
UM, I THINK THIS IS DEMOCRACY AND AUCTION ACTION.
I REALLY AM PROUD OF EVERYBODY FOR BEING SO GOOD TO EACH OTHER AND, UH, I LOOK FORWARD TO SEEING NEW HOUSES.
THIS BRINGS US TO THE GERMAN, THE JURY RECORD JOINT MEETING OF THE ELOCON CITY COUNCIL.
OKLAHOMA HOUSING AUTHORITY HELD THIS 24TH DAY OF SEPTEMBER, 2019 AS A JURY UNTIL TUESDAY, OCTOBER 8TH, 2019 AT 3:00 PM THANK YOU VERY MUCH.