Jun 27, 2023 City Council Meeting 3pm

SO THEY HAVE OPPORTUNITIES.

SO ANYHOW, APPRECIATE THE RECOGNITION.

I APPRECIATE THEM EVEN MORE.

ALL OF THEM, LITERALLY.

RONNIE, HE'S OUR SUPERSTAR.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

WE APPRECIATE IT.

WELL, LET, LET ME LET, BEFORE YOU GO AWAY, LET ME READ THIS, JUST THE END PART OF THIS PROCLAMATION.

NOW, THEREFORE, I BILL WELLS, THE MAYOR OF THE CITY OF ELCON, TOGETHER WITH THE CITY COUNCIL, PROUDLY ACKNOWLEDGE AND COMMEND AM ORTEGA CONSTRUCTION INCORPORATED FOR THEIR DEDICATION TO CREATING EMPLOYMENT OPPORTUNITIES AND EQUIPPING INDIVIDUALS WITH THE NECESSARY SKILLS AND TRAINING FOR A SUCCESSFUL FUTURE.

WE ARE HONORED TO COLLABORATE WITH AM ORTEGA CONSTRUCTION INCORPORATED AND THE EAST COUNTY TRANSITIONAL LIVING CENTER TO ADDRESS HOMELESSNESS EFFECTIVELY WITHIN THE CITY OF EL CAJON.

SIGNED THIS 27TH DAY OF JUNE, 2023.

THANK YOU SO MUCH.

THANK YOU, MR. MAYOR, IF I MAY, SURE.

I TO, FOR THE PUBLIC, I, I, I WANNA JUST SAY ONE MORE THING.

THE GENEROSITY THAT MR. ORTEGA IS DISPLAYING CANNOT BE UNDERSTATED.

AND THE VISION THAT YOU HAVE CANNOT BE UNDERSTATED.

UM, PARTNERING UP WITH E C T L C AND THE CULTURE YOU HAVE CREATED THERE UNDER PASTOR HAROLD BROWN AND YOU, IVAN LEADERSHIP OVER THERE IS THE PERFECT PARTNERSHIP TO GIVE PEOPLE VISION FOR THEIR LIFE, NEW VISION FOR THEIR LIFE, A SECOND CHANCE ON THEIR LIFE.

AND, AND DONATING YOUR OWN MONEY TO, TO TRAIN THESE MEN TO HAVE A SECOND CHANCE IN LIFE IS EXACTLY WHAT THIS COMMUNITY NEEDS TO BRING OURSELVES OUT OF THIS HOMELESS CRISIS.

AND WHAT I SAID AT THE, UM, IT SEEMED LIKE A PARTY THAT, THAT WE HAD FOR THE GRADUATION, I GUESS IS WHAT IT WAS, BUT IT WAS OUTSTANDING AT, AT THE GRADUATION, WAS A LOT OF THE MODELS THAT WE SEE AROUND HOMELESSNESS IN CALIFORNIA ARE GIVE A MAN A FISH MODEL, AND THEY'RE ONLY BEING FED FOR A DAY.

AND, UM, MR. ORTEGA, UM, THE ENTIRE TEAM, E C T L C, IS TEACHING MEN HOW TO FISH SO THEY CAN PROVIDE FOR THEMSELVES, AND THEN THEREFORE THEY CAN GO AND PASS THOSE SKILLS ALONG, UM, DOWN THE ROAD.

AND SO, I JUST REALLY WANT TO TIP MY HAT BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW OF ANY OTHER CONSTRUCTION COMPANY BUSINESS ORG ORGANIZATION, LIKE, LIKE THIS TEAM RIGHT HERE.

SO THANK YOU VERY MUCH ON BEHALF OF THE CITIZENS, THE CITY, THE STAFF FOR, FOR THE LEADERSHIP YOU'RE SHOWING IN EAST COUNTY.

I APPRECIATE IT.

CHANGES, UH, STAFF, DO YOU HAVE ANY AGENDA CHANGES? NO, SIR.

[00:10:09]

AGENDA

[ AGENDA CHANGES:]

WE HAVE NO, NO CHANGES TO THE AGENDA.

COUNCIL MEMBERS,

[7. CONSENT ITEMS: Consent Items are routine matters enacted by one motion according to the RECOMMENDATION listed below. With the concurrence of the City Council, a Council Member or person in attendance may request discussion of a Consent Item at this time.]

UH, WE'RE NOW CONSENT ITEMS, CONSENT ITEMS, ROUTINE MATTERS ENACTED BY ONE MOTION ACCORDING TO THE RECOMMENDATION LISTED BELOW WITH THE CONCURRENCE OF THE CITY COUNCIL, COUNCIL MEMBER OR PERSON IN ATTENDANCE MAY RE REQUEST DISCUSSION OF A CONSENT ITEM AT THIS TIME.

COUNCIL MEMBERS, DO YOU WISH TO PULL ANY OF THE CONSENT ITEMS? STAFF? NO, SIR.

ANDREW, DO WE HAVE ANY SPEAKER CARDS FOR CONSENT? WE HAVE NO CARD, SIR.

I'LL MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE THE CONSENT ITEMS. SECOND, PLEASE VOTE.

WE'RE NOW A PUBLIC COMMENT AT THIS TIME.

[ PUBLIC COMMENT: At this time, any person may address a matter within the jurisdiction of the City Council/Housing Authority/Successor Agency to the El Cajon Redevelopment Agency that is not on the Agenda. Comments relating to items on today’s docket are to be taken at the time the item is heard. State law prohibits discussion or action on items not on the Agenda; however, Council, Authority and Agency Members may briefly respond to statements or questions. An item may be placed on a future Agenda.]

ANY PERSON MAY ADDRESS A MATTER WITHIN THE JURISDICTION OF THE CITY COUNCIL HOUSING AUTHORITY SUCCESSOR AGENCY TO THE EL CAJON REDEVELOPMENT AGENCY THAT IS NOT ON THE AGENDA.

COMMENTS RELATING TO ITEMS ON TODAY'S AGENDA ARE TO BE TAKEN AT THE TIME THAT THE ITEM IS HEARD.

STATE LAW PROHIBITS DISCUSSION OR ACTION ON ITEMS NOT ON THE AGENDA.

HOWEVER, CITY COUNCIL AND HOUSING AUTHORITY MEMBERS MAY BRIEFLY RESPOND TO STATEMENTS OR QUESTIONS.

AND I ITEM MAY BE PLACED ON A FUTURE AGENDA.

ANGELA, DO WE HAVE ANY SPEAKER CARDS FOR PUBLIC COMMENT? WE HAVE NO CARDS, SIR.

ARE NO WRITTEN COMMUNICATIONS ON TODAY'S AGENDA.

UH, THERE

[9. WRITTEN COMMUNICATIONS:]

[10. PUBLIC HEARINGS:]

THERE ARE NO PUBLIC HEARINGS ON TODAY'S AGENDA.

WE HAVE FIVE ADMINISTRATIVE REPORTS ON

[11. ADMINISTRATIVE REPORTS:]

TODAY'S AGENDA.

ITEM 10 IS A REPORT ON PARKWAY PLAZA,

[10. Plarkway Plaza Discussion RECOMMENDATION: That the City Council receives the report regarding Parkway Plaza and provides feedback and direction.]

AND I WOULD LIKE TO ASK OUR CITY MANAGER TO PLEASE INTRODUCE THIS ITEM.

THANK YOU, MR. WELLS AND MEMBER OF THE MEMBERS OF THE CITY COUNCIL, IF WE CAN GET MY PRESENTATION UP.

I THINK IT'S, IT'S IMPORTANT TO RECOGNIZE THAT PARKWAY PLAZA IS A LITTLE BIT UNIQUE IN THAT IT'S NOT OWNED BY ONE ENTITY.

UM, AS YOU RECALL, AS YOU KNOW, PARKWAY PLAZA IS AN IMPORTANT ECONOMIC ENGINE FOR THE CITY OF EL CAJON AND HAS BEEN A PRIORITY FOR THE CITY, UH, COUNCIL.

AND IN FACT, IT'S BEEN, UH, A TOPIC OF YOUR CITY COUNCIL ACTION PLAN FOR THE LAST SEVERAL YEARS.

THIS YEAR IS NO DIFFERENT.

ONE OF THE GOALS AS PART OF THE COUNCIL ACTION PLAN WAS TO SECURE A GROUP OF STUDENTS FROM SAN DIEGO STATE TO PROVIDE SOME ADDITIONAL ANALYSIS AND THEN SORT OF HELP US UNDERSTAND WHAT, WHAT SOME POSSIBILITIES ARE.

AND SO, THE PURPOSE OF TODAY'S MEETING IS REALLY TO PROVIDE A BRIEF SUMMARY ABOUT A CAPSTONE PROJECT THAT FOUR SAN DIEGO STATE STUDENTS PERFORMED.

AND I'M GONNA FO, WELL, I'LL EXPLAIN WHAT I'LL FOCUS ON ON THEIRS, BUT I WANTED TO USE THAT AS AN OPPORTUNITY TO PROVIDE SOME OPPORTUNITIES, UM, OR SHOW SOME VISION OF WHAT COULD OCCUR AT PARKWAY PLAZA, AND THEN GET SOME, UH, IDEAS FROM THE CITY COUNCIL AND TALK ABOUT SOME POTENTIAL NEXT STEPS OF HOW TO HELP FACILITATE REVITALIZATION OF THE MALL.

I THINK IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT THAT, THAT, THAT COUNCIL KNOWS THIS, BUT I DON'T ALWAYS KNOW IF THE PUBLIC RECOGNIZES THIS, THAT THE CITY OF EL ELCON HAS ZERO OWNERSHIP AT PARKWAY PLAZA.

MEANING WE HAVE NO ABILITY TO IMPOSE YOUR WISHES, YOUR VISION ON THAT FACILITY.

WE'LL TALK ABOUT WHAT YOU DO HAVE LATER ON.

BUT I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO RECOGNIZE THAT, UM, YOU DON'T OWN BUSINESSES THERE.

YOU CAN'T FORCE A BUSINESS TO OPEN OR CLOSE.

UM, YOU CAN'T FORCE DEVELOPMENT TO HAPPEN.

AND IN FACT, I, I SAW ONE FACEBOOK POST, UM, THAT SAYS, PLEASE DON'T CLOSE ELK, UH, PARKWAY PLAZA.

WELL, EVEN IF THE CITY COUNCIL WANTED TO CLOSE PARKWAY PLAZA, YOU HAVE NO ABILITY TO CLOSE PARKWAY PLAZA.

SO, UM, HAVING SAID THAT, AS AS A FOUNDATION, LET ME LAUNCH INTO THE CAPSTONE PROJECT.

SO THESE FOUR GRADUATE STUDENTS, UH, IN THE PUBLIC ADMINISTRATION PROGRAM RESEARCHED PARKWAY PLAZA.

THEY LOOKED AT, UM, WHAT'S WORKING, WHAT COULD BE BETTER.

THEY LOOKED AT OTHER EXAMPLES IN OTHER CITIES OF WHAT THEY'RE DOING AND CAME UP WITH THIS REPORT.

UH, IT'S VERY COMPREHENSIVE REPORT.

THEY WERE ACTUALLY VOTED BY THE EVALUATING PROFESSORS AS THE CAPSTONE PROJECT OF THE YEAR OF ALL THE DIFFERENT CAPSTONES THAT WE'RE FOCUSED ON.

UH, A LOT OF THAT HAS TO DO WITH THE GREAT INTERACTION THAT THEY HAD WITH CITY STAFF, BUT ALSO DAISY MOLINA, WHO'S HERE FROM PARKWAY PLAZA.

AND SHE GAVE THEM A LOT OF TIME AND EFFORT AND ENERGY.

SO REALLY APPRECIATE THAT.

ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I THOUGHT WAS THE MOST VALUABLE FROM THE CAPSTONE PROJECT WAS AN, AN IMMENSE AMOUNT OF POLLING AND SURVEY TAKING THAT THEY DID, WHICH I'LL, I'LL KIND OF FOCUS THE MAJORITY OF THE CAPSTONE PORTION OF THE PRESENTATION ON THE DATA THAT THEY CAME UP WITH.

UM, FIRST OF ALL,

[00:15:01]

UM, STAR WEST IS THE LEGAL ENTITY THAT OWNS THE MAJORITY OF PARKWAY PLAZA, UM, SAGE, OR IT WAS SARA DIG, IT'S TRANSFERRING OVER TO SAGE INVESTMENT CO.

THEY ARE, UM, THE AREA THAT USED TO OWN THE SEARS AND THE PARKING LOT, ALL THE WAY TO THE CORNER OF FLETCHER PARKWAY AND JOHNSON AVENUE.

UM, FLETCHER PARKWAY GROUP OWNS THE FORMER MACY'S BUILDING, INCLUDING THE PARKING LOT UP TO FLETCHER PARKWAY AND AROUND THE FORMER'S MACY'S SITE.

WHAT'S INTERESTING IS JC PENNY IN WALMART HAVE LONG-TERM LEASES WITH STARWOOD.

SO STARWOOD OWNS THE LAND CLEARLY UNDERNEATH.

AND THERE'S SOME, UH, IT'S, IT'S CONFUSING ABOUT WHO OWNS WHAT, BUT IT'S, IT'S SAFE TO SAY THAT THERE ARE MORE THAN THAN ONE ENTITY THAT WE WOULD HAVE TO DEAL WITH IN HELPING TO CAST A VISION OF, OF WHAT COULD OCCUR THERE.

SO, SO FROM A A LAND USE PERSPECTIVE, IT'S IMPORTANT TO RECOGNIZE THAT THIS WHOLE AREA IS GOVERNED BY A SPECIFIC PLAN.

IT, IT REGULATES OR GOVERNS THE FULL 80 ACRE SITE.

ONE OF THE THINGS THAT THE SPECIFIC PLAN SAYS THAT IF RETAIL IS REDUCED, THAT IT ACTUALLY REQUIRES CITY COUNCIL ACTION.

SO IF THE MALL WERE TO, LET'S SAY, LOP OFF A HALF OF IT AND TURN IT INTO HOUSING, THAT WOULD HAVE TO, THAT WOULD, THEY COULD NOT DO THAT ON THEIR OWN, THAT WOULD REQUIRE AN AMENDMENT TO THE SPECIFIC PLAN.

SO THE CITY COUNCIL HAS A LOT OF CONTROL IN KEEPING WHAT IS THERE NOW, BUT NOT A LOT OF CONTROL OF MODIFYING WHAT COULD BE IN THE FUTURE.

UM, IT'S ZONED, JUST SO YOU KNOW, FROM A REGIONAL COMMERCIAL, IT'S ZONED REGIONAL COMMERCIAL.

BUT WHAT'S MOST IMPORTANT IS THAT THE CITY COUNCIL IN 2018 PUT THIS OVERLAY ZONE OVER THE EXISTING SPECIFIC PLAN AND THE ZONING, WHICH ALLOWS 40 UNITS PER ACRE TO BE CONSTRUCTED WITHOUT, BY RIGHT.

MEANING IT DOESN'T HAVE TO GO TO PLANNING COMMISSION, DOESN'T HAVE TO GO TO THE CITY COUNCIL.

BUT EVEN MORE IMPORTANTLY, THE CITY COUNCIL PAID FOR THE ENVIRONMENTAL WORK OR THE EIR.

SO ALL THAT WORK IS DONE AHEAD OF TIME.

THAT'S ONE OF THE BIGGEST RISKS THAT ANY DEVELOPER TAKES IS, IS THE ENVIRONMENTAL WORK UPFRONT.

THE CITY COUNCIL HAS ALREADY TAKEN ON THAT RISK, CUZ YOU'VE ALREADY DONE ALL OF THAT WORK.

SO, UM, LET'S TALK ABOUT SOME OF THE SURVEY DATA THAT THEY, UM, THEY COLLECTED.

SO THEY REALLY WANTED TO GET AN UNDERSTANDING OF THE SHOP, THE SHOPPER'S PROFILE OF THOSE THAT ATTEND PARKWAY PLAZA.

UH, THEY CONDUCTED ONLINE SURVEYS.

THEY COLLECTED OVER 3000 SURVEYS.

PHENOMENAL.

UH, THEY, UH, OFFERED IT IN THREE LANGUAGES, ENGLISH, ENGLISH, SPANISH, AND ARABIC.

AND ABOUT 60% OF THOSE THAT PARTICIPATED IN THE SURVEY ARE EL CAJON RESIDENTS.

SO THAT MEANS 40% OF THOSE THEY SURVEYED HAD A CONNECTION WITH PARKWAY PLAZA AND DECIDED TO TAKE THE SURVEY FROM AN AGE DISTRIBUTION.

OVER 25% ARE BETWEEN THE AGES OF 40 AND 49, UH, WITH 20% AS THE SECOND LARGEST GROUP BETWEEN 30 AND 39.

SO YOU CAN SEE ALMOST HALF OF THOSE SURVEYED ARE BETWEEN THE AGES OF, OF 30 AND 50 YEARS OLD.

ONE OF THE OTHER QUESTIONS THAT WAS ASKED WAS ABOUT WHAT, UM, THE FREQUENCY OF ATTENDING OTHER MALLS, UH, PARKWAY PLAZA WAS THE NUMBER ONE MALL THAT THOSE THAT TOOK THE SURVEY RESPONDED TO, FOLLOWED BY GROSSMONT AND FASHION VALLEY.

IT'S CLEAR THAT THERE IS A CORRELATION BETWEEN PROXIMITY TO THE MALL AND ATTENDANCE OF THE MALL.

WE ALSO, OR THEY ALSO ASKED ABOUT INCOME, UH, OR HOUSEHOLD INCOME.

AS YOU CAN SEE, A A LARGE PERCENTAGE, 46%, ALMOST HALF OF THOSE THAT TOOK THE SURVEY HAVE A HOUSEHOLD INCOME OF A HUNDRED THOUSAND OR MORE.

AND THEN, UH, THE LAST QUESTION THAT I WILL KIND OF FOCUS ON IN DETAIL HAS TO DO WITH WHAT ESTABLISHMENTS WERE VISITED IS, YOU CAN SEE WALMART, BY FAR IS THE MOST VISITED STORE AT PARKWAY PLAZA.

AND THEN, UH, REGAL DICK'S SPORTING GOOD HOME GOODS, JCPENNEY IS ABOUT TIED FOR SECOND, AND THEN IT DROPS OFF FROM THERE.

THEY ALSO ASKED ABOUT THEIR, THEIR OVERALL SATISFACTION WITH THE MALL.

AND THOSE, THE, THE 3000 PLUS THE TOOK, THE SURVEY SAID THAT ABOUT ABOUT 51% OF THEM ARE NOT SATISFIED WITH THE MALL.

NOW THAT, THAT CAN MEAN A LOT OF THINGS.

UM, AND WE WILL DIVE INTO SOME OF THE THINGS THAT THEY WOULD LIKE TO SEE MORE OF.

ONE OF THE, I APOLOGIZE FOR THE FORMATTING.

EVERY TIME

[00:20:01]

IT IS ON A NEW SYSTEM, IT CHANGES THE FORMATTING.

BUT YOU CAN SEE FROM THIS SLIDE, UM, ANSWERING THE QUESTION, WHAT WOULD BRING YOU TO PARKWAY PLAZA MORE OFTEN? UM, CLEARLY MORE RETAIL, MORE DINING, EVERYTHING ELSE IS, IS CLEARLY SECONDARY.

BUT THOSE ARE THE, THE DRIVERS OF WHAT WOULD BRING PEOPLE TO PARKWAY PLAZA.

BUT YOU CAN SEE FAMILY ACTIVITIES, PLACES FOR WALKING, OUTDOOR SPACE, UH, KIDS PLAY AREAS AND SOME TRANSIT OPTIONS WERE, WERE INCLUDED AS PART OF THAT LIST.

SO A COUPLE KEY FACTORS THAT STAFF IDENTIFIED.

ONE, I THINK THAT THERE'S A, A DESIRE FOR MORE COMMUNITY EVENTS AT THE MALL.

AND IT'S A GREAT PROPERTY.

AND IN FACT, UM, AS PART OF, UH, NATIONAL NIGHT OUT, THE POLICE EVENT, WE, WE, IT WAS HOSTED AT PARKWAY PLAZA LAST YEAR.

IT'S GONNA BE HOSTED THERE AGAIN THIS YEAR.

REALLY, IT'S GONNA BE A BIGGER EVENT THAN THAN BEFORE.

SO WE THINK THERE'S A LOT OF VALUE IN STARTING TO THINK ABOUT ARE THERE OPPORTUNITIES TO HAVE COMMUNITY EVENTS AT THAT FACILITY.

UM, THE, THERE WAS THROUGHOUT THE SURVEY, THIS PERCEPTION OF A LACK OF SAFETY CAME UP OVER AND OVER AGAIN.

SO, AND SOME OF IT WAS FOUNDED AND SOME OF IT'S NOT FOUNDED.

YOU'VE HEARD THE, THE MANTRA THAT PARKWAY PLAZAS THE HUMAN TRAFFICKING CAPITAL OF THE WORLD.

THERE.

THERE'S ZERO TRUTH TO THAT, THAT ALLEGATION.

UM, AND THE CHIEF CAN TALK MORE ABOUT THAT IF THERE'S A QUESTION FROM THE COUNCIL, BUT THERE'S THIS, THERE'S A PERCEPTION THAT REALLY DOES NEED TO BE WORKED ON.

AND THERE WAS A LITTLE BIT OF CONNECTION, UH, DISCUSSION ABOUT CONNECTING MORE WITH THE TROLLEY STATION, THE ARNE STATION AND CR CREATING A, A BETTER OR, OR A, UH, SAFER PEDESTRIAN EXPERIENCE FROM THAT STATION TO THE MALL.

SO THE STUDENTS, BASED ON THEIR SURVEYS AND THEIR FINDINGS, THEY CAME UP WITH A SERIES OF RECOMMENDATIONS AND THEY WERE BROKEN INTO PHASES ZERO THROUGH FIVE.

I'M GONNA, I'M GONNA REALLY GONNA LUMP A COUPLE OF THEM TOGETHER AND, UH, JUST HAVE SORT OF THREE PHASES OF RECOMMENDATIONS THAT THEY CAME UP WITH.

AND THESE ARE THEIR RECOMMENDATIONS, NOT NECESSARILY STAFF'S RECOMMENDATION, BUT THEY DID SAY THAT THERE WAS A NEED FOR SOME ADDITIONAL ASSESSMENT OF, OF THE MALL, WHAT'S WORKING, WHAT'S NOT WORKING, WHAT ARE THE VULNERABILITIES, WHAT ARE THE STRENGTHS, WHAT ARE THE WEAKNESSES, WHAT ARE THE OPPORTUNITIES? UM, AND, AND TO REALLY START ENGAGING THE COMMUNITY ON THIS IDEA OF SAFETY PERCEPTION AND HAVING MORE OF A COMMUNITY DIALOGUE AROUND THAT AREA.

I THINK THERE'S SOME VALUE IN THAT.

PHASE TWO HAD TO DO MORE ABOUT BRINGING ACTIVITIES TO THE MALL, WHETHER IT BE CITY EVENTS, FARMER'S MARKETS, OTHER THINGS LIKE THAT.

THEY ALSO TALKED ABOUT DEVELOPING, UH, AN OPPORTUNITY, UM, A MORE COMPREHENSIVE PARKING PLAN TO MAXIMIZE EFFICIENCIES.

THE REALITY IS THAT MALL FROM A ZONING PERSPECTIVE IS OVER PARKED BY, I BELIEVE ABOUT A THOUSAND SPACES.

SO THERE ARE SOME OPPORTUNITIES FOR, FOR EFFICIENCIES, ALTHOUGH IT'S INTERESTING, I DO SEE IN A LOT OF FACEBOOK POSTS, UM, WHERE ARE PEOPLE GONNA PARK? BUT I, THEY DRIVE BY, THERE'S, THERE ARE SEIZE OF PARKING LOTS AND PARKING STRUCTURES, A LOT OF THEM, WHICH ARE LEASED FOR OTHER PURPOSES.

SO THERE'S, THERE'S, UH, PLENTY OF A PARKING OPPORTUNITIES THERE.

THERE WAS ALSO THIS IDEA OF ENCOURAGING PETS OR CREATING A MALL THAT'S A LITTLE BIT MORE PET FRIENDLY AND THEY REALLY POINTED TO FASHION VALLEY.

HAVING GONE TO FASHION VALLEY AND, AND LOVING MY PET, UM, I RECOGNIZE THAT FASHION VALLEY, AN OUTDOOR MALL IS A LOT DIFFERENT, OR UTC IS A LOT DIFFERENT THAN IN, IN ALL INDOOR PARKWAY PLAZA.

SO I DON'T KNOW IF STAFF WOULD RECOMMEND THAT.

AND PLUS WE HAVE NO ABILITY TO REQUIRE THEM OR, OR FORCE 'EM TO DO THAT.

BUT THAT WAS SOMETHING FOR THEY THOUGHT THAT THE MALL SHOULD OWNERSHIP OR MANAGEMENT SHOULD THINK ABOUT AT SOME POINT.

UM, THE LAST, THE LAST SORT OF SETS OF RECOMMENDATIONS IS THAT THE CITY COULD HELP THE EXISTING PROPERTY OWNERS CREATE THIS VISION OF WHAT WOULD BRING MORE PEOPLE TO PARKWAY PLAZA, KIND OF FOCUSING ON THE DATA THAT THEY COLLECTED, FOCUSING ON RETAIL AND FOOD ESTABLISHMENTS AND STAFF WILL COME BACK AND TALK ABOUT THAT.

CAUSE I THINK WE DO HAVE SOME SUGGESTIONS AND ARE LOOKING FOR SOME CITY COUNCIL FEEDBACK IN THAT AREA.

AND ALSO THINKING ABOUT SOME INCENTIVES TO ENCOURAGE SOME ADDITIONAL MIXED USE DEVELOPMENT AT THE MALL.

AND WE'LL, WE'LL KIND OF TALK ABOUT WHAT THAT REALLY MEANS AT THE END OF THE DAY.

SO WITH THAT, BEFORE I KIND OF TALK ABOUT VISION OR OPPORTUNITIES, DOES COUNCIL HAVE ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT THE CAPSTONE PROJECT? I DIDN'T HAVE A CHANCE TO ATTEND THEIR ACTUAL PRESENTATION.

MR. CHU DID.

SO BETWEEN HIM AND I, UH, WE COULD PROBABLY ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS THAT YOU MAY HAVE SPECIFICALLY ABOUT THEIR PROJECT.

ANY QUESTIONS FROM THE COUNCIL? JUST REAL QUICK?

[00:25:01]

UM, ONE OF THE QUESTIONS I'M SURE THAT THE PUBLIC WOULD BRING UP, WE HAVE A LITTLE OVER A HUNDRED THOUSAND PEOPLE IN THE CITY.

THEY TOOK A, A SURVEY OF 3000 PEOPLE.

IS THAT A GOOD PERCENTAGE? A 3%? UM, YES AND NO.

I MEAN, STATISTICALLY IT'S A GREAT SURVEY, BUT IT WASN'T RANDOMLY, RIGHT.

I MEAN, THIS WAS SELF-SELECTED.

WHEN YOU DO AN ONLINE SURVEY, YOU ARE CHOOSING TO TAKE IT.

THERE'S A REASON WHY YOU WERE DIRECTED TO TAKE IT.

SO IT'S GONNA SKEW THE DATA ALL THE TIME.

AND I THINK THAT'S IMPORTANT.

IT IS ALSO IMPORTANT TO RECOGNIZE THAT THIS IS A SUBGROUP, BUT, BUT 3000 SURVEYS IN A CITY OF A HUNDRED THOUSAND, IF IT WERE A RANDOMIZED SURVEY THAT IS WELL ABOVE STATISTICALLY ACCURATE.

UM, ONE MORE QUESTION ABOUT THE, UH, RESPONDENTS, WERE THEY ALL EL CAJON RESIDENTS OR WERE THEY JUST EAST COUNTY OR, WELL, 60% WERE ACTUAL EL CAJON RESIDENTS.

THE, THE REST HAD SOME SORT OF A CONNECTION TO PARKWAY PLAZA OKAY.

WHERE SOMETHING ON SOCIAL MEDIA TRIGGERED THEM TO WANT TO GO THERE.

IF THERE'S NO MORE QUESTIONS, I'LL, I'LL MOVE ON.

ON IDEAS ON THE PAPER AND DEVELOP THIS VISION.

SO WE WANTED TO SORT OF SET THE STAGE OR LAY THE FOUNDATION OF SOME OF THE OPPORTUNITIES THAT COULD OCCUR AT PARKWAY PLAZA.

AND I THINK IT'S, IT'S IMPORTANT TO RECOGNIZE THAT THERE'S REALLY FIVE THINGS WHEN YOU'RE LOOKING AT A MALL OF WHAT TO DO.

ONE IS THE DO NOTHING AND JUST SORT OF LET THE MARKET FIGURE OUT WHAT IT'S GONNA DO.

YOU, YOU CAN SEE ACROSS THE UNITED STATES THAT THE, THE CONCEPT OF A LARGE REGIONAL MALL ARE, ARE STARTING TO CHANGE.

AND UNLESS THERE'S AN EVOLUTION AT SOME POINT, THERE'S A PRETTY SIGNIFICANT COST OF NO ACTION.

UM, THE OTHER, THE OTHER CONCEPT WHICH ISN'T KIND OF SHOWN HERE IS JUST A BIG REHAB OF THEM ALL AND JUST PUT A LOT OF MONEY INTO REINVESTING INTO NEW FIXTURES AND NEW LIGHTING AND NEW FLOORING.

ALL THAT I AT, AT SOME POINT.

UM, IS THAT THROWING GOOD MONEY AT A BAD, RIGHT? I DON'T, I DON'T KNOW THAT I'M NOT IN THE MALL BUSINESS.

THAT WOULD BE SOMETHING THAT THE OWNERSHIP GROUP COULD TALK ABOUT.

THE THREE THINGS THAT I WANTED TO FOCUS ON IS AREAS THAT I, I'M SEEING IN READING THE LITERATURE WHERE THE TRENDS ARE GOING.

ONE IS TO IDENTIFY OPPORTUNITIES FOR DEVELOPMENT ALONG THE HINTERLANDS OR THE OUTSIDE OF THE MALL.

IN OTHER WORDS, THE LAR THE LARGE EXPANSES OF PARKING LOTS.

THE OTHER IS TO LOOK AT THE MALL AND REALLY LOOK AT WHAT IS THE DEMAND FOR COMMERCIAL SPACE.

AND IF, IF THERE'S A HUNDRED THOUSAND SQUARE FEET OF SPACE AND THERE'S ONLY 70,000 SQUARE FEET OF DEMAND FOR COMMERCIAL SPACE, WHAT DO YOU DO WITH THAT OTHER 30,000 SQUARE FEET? AND THERE'S A LOT OF OPTIONS, A LOT OF OPPORTUNITIES TO DO THINGS WITH THAT.

SO THAT'S SORT OF THE OTHER IS YOU KIND OF KEEP THEM ALL AS IT IS, BUT YOU START THINKING ABOUT REUSES OR REPURPOSING PORTIONS OF, OF AN EXISTING FACILITY.

THE THIRD IS YOU, YOU THINK ABOUT JUST SCRAPPING THE WHOLE THING AND STARTING OVER, RIGHT? SO THOSE ARE KIND OF THE THREE EXTREMES FROM, FROM THE DO NOTHING TO COMPLETELY, UH, SCRAP THE WHOLE THING.

SO HAVING SAID THAT, WE'RE GONNA, I'M GONNA SHARE THREE DIFFERENT MALLS WITH YOU FROM AROUND NORTH AMERICA.

THE FIRST IS GONNA START IN BRITISH COLUMBIA, UM, A SUBURB JUST EAST OF VANCOUVER.

UM, THIS MALL WAS BUILT IN 1963.

YOU CAN SEE THAT SEARS BUILDING.

OH, YOU CAN'T SEE THAT NOW.

YOU CAN SEE THAT SEARS BUILDING, UH, IT LOOKS VERY SIMILAR, RIGHT? SEARS HAD A VERY STANDARD LOOK, UH, LOOKED VERY SIMILAR TO PARKWAY PLAZA SEARS FOR A WHILE, BUT YOU CAN, YOU CAN TELL THAT THIS MALL, UM, WHAT IT LOOKED LIKE IN 1963.

AND GUESS WHAT? BY 2014 IT HADN'T CHANGED MUCH.

SO LARGE MALL, MASSIVE PARKING LOT LOOKS LIKE THERE'S SOME OPPORTUNITIES FOR SOME PAD DEVELOPMENT.

IN FACT, THERE'S THE BEGINNING OF SOME PAD DEVELOPMENT AND THAT, THAT LITTLE CORNER PIECE.

WHAT'S ALSO INTERESTING ABOUT THIS IS YOU CAN SEE THAT TO THE, UM, NEAR THE BOTTOM, THAT LONG WHITE RECTANGULAR STRUCTURE, THAT'S ACTUALLY A LIGHT RAIL STATION.

SO LIGHT RAIL GOES RIGHT UP TO THE PARKING LOT OF THE MALL.

YOU WOULD STILL HAVE TO WALK ALL THE WAY THROUGH THE PARKING LOT, BUT THERE WAS A LIGHT RAIL CONNECTING TO THAT.

AND I, I, I ALSO LIKE YOU TO SORT OF DRAW YOUR ATTENTION TO WHAT'S AROUND THE MALL.

YOU CAN SEE TOO, UM, WE'LL CALL THAT THE NORTH OF THE MALL.

YOU CAN SEE CLEARLY PRETTY, PRETTY STANDARD SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENTIAL.

UM, AND THEN YOU CAN SEE SOME, SOME LOW RISE OR LOW DENSITY DEVELOPMENT TO THE, THE AREAS NEAR THE TRANSIT STATE CENTER AND TO THE WEST OF THE MALL.

AGAIN, THIS IS WHAT IT LOOKED LIKE IN 2014.

PRETTY STANDARD LONDON DRUGS.

WE DON'T HAVE A LONDON DRUGS, BUT IT, IT'S SIMILAR TO, UH, A LARGE DRUG STORE.

WALMART.

HE KIND OF A STORE WAS, WAS THE ANCHOR THERE.

UH, THEY CREATED A VISION.

THEY JUST PUT

[00:30:01]

THIS IS NOT AN, THIS IS NOT A DRAWING.

THIS IS ACTUALLY A GOOGLE EARTH IMAGE OF WHAT EXISTS TODAY THAT IS THERE.

THIS WAS, THEN YOU CAN SEE THAT LITTLE CORNER PIECE.

THIS IS THERE NOW, THAT MALL IS STILL THERE IN THE BACKDROP.

I LOOKED AT IT.

IT HAS ALL THE STANDARD STORES THAT ANY OTHER MALL WOULD HAVE, HAS AN ADIDAS STORE, HAS AN H AND M, HAS BED BATH AND BEYOND, HAS ALL THE STORES THAT WE WOULD TYPICALLY SEE AT MALLS.

BUT NOW YOU HAVE A LARGE FOOD ENTERTAINMENT AREA IN FRONT OF THE MALL THAT, THAT OUTDOOR PLAZA AREA.

AND YOU HAVE TWO VERY LARGE RESIDENTIAL TOWERS.

BY THE WAY.

STAFF WOULD NEVER RECOMMEND TOWERS THAT LARGE IN EL CAJON, BUT IT JUST SHOWS YOU THE OPPORTUNITY.

THE OTHER THING THAT I WANTED TO POINT OUT, LOOKING AT THE NEIGHBORING PROPERTIES, YOU CAN SEE THE PROPERTIES JUST SORT OF TO THE SOUTH HAVEN'T CHANGED MUCH, BUT YOU CAN SEE SOME NEW DEVELOPMENT OCCURRING TO THE SOUTHWEST OF THE MALL PROPERTY.

AND THE SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENTIAL CONTINUES TO REMAIN.

SO THAT KIND OF JUST SHARES, SHARES WITH YOU AN OPPORTUNITY FOR A PRETTY SIGNIFICANT REDEVELOPMENT OF A MALL THAT LOOKS VERY SIMILAR TO OUR PROPERTY.

UH, NOW WE'LL GO, WE'LL GO A LITTLE SOUTH TO TO AUSTIN, TEXAS TO HIGHLAND MALL.

UM, THIS MALL WAS BUILT IN 2015.

ALSO, YOU CAN SEE, UH, OR THIS IS PICTURE WAS TAKEN IN 2015.

IT WAS BUILT IN THE SEVENTIES.

YOU CAN SEE THAT IT IS A SEA OF, UM, PARKING LOT.

THEY HAD A NEED FOR, UH, THE AUSTIN COMMUNITY COLLEGE.

AND SO THE COMMUNITY COLLEGE TOOK OVER THE ENTIRE MALL.

THAT USED TO BE THE ENTRANCE TO JCPENNEY.

IT'S NOW THE ENTRANCE TO THE COMMUNITY COLLEGE.

AND THEN AROUND IT, YOU CAN SEE THEY'RE STARTING TO DEVELOP OUT PADS WITH RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENT THAT LOOKS LIKE THAT WITH MIXED USE ON THE BOTTOM FLOOR.

THIS IS KIND OF AN AERIAL MAP THAT KIND OF SHOWS, UM, THE USES.

THE BLUE IS THE EXISTING MALL IN THE EXPANSION OF THE COMMUNITY COLLEGE WITH THE, THE ORANGE OR THAT YELLOW RESIDENTIAL UNITS.

AND THEN THERE'S OFFICE COMMERCIAL AND THAT PEACH COLOR.

SO KIND OF TAKING OUT A PROPERTY AND MAXIMIZING THE DENSITY AND PUTTING ALL THE PARKING STRUCTURES AS YOU CAN SEE HERE.

I MEAN THIS, THIS IS CALLED A TEXAS WRAP FOR A REASON.

IT'S IN TEXAS WHERE YOU WRAP, UH, BUILD A PARKING STRUCTURE AND THEN YOU WRAP IT WITH RESIDENTIAL OR WITH RETAIL OR COMMERCIAL.

SO AGAIN, THAT'S THE MALL PROPERTY, TAKING AN AERIAL VIEW OF THAT TODAY.

SO YOU CAN SEE THE MALL PROPERTY STILL EXISTS.

AND THEN THERE'S NEW DEVELOPMENT IN AND AROUND THE PROPERTY WHERE THE PARKING LOT WAS.

AND YOU CAN EVEN SEE TO THE VERY WE'LL CALL THAT THE WEST SIDE OF THE FAR LEFT SIDE, YOU CAN STILL STILL SEE THAT THERE'S SOME NEW DEVELOPMENT STILL BEING BUILT OUT.

OKAY, LAST PROPERTY WE'LL GO TO IS, UH, MALL IN, OH, THERE WAS THEN, THERE WAS NOW.

TO HAVE A BROADER DISCUSSION.

UH, LAST MALL IS THE NORTHGATE, THE NORTHGATE MALL IN SEATTLE, WASHINGTON.

THIS WAS BUILT IN THE 1950S, BUT HAD A REALLY MASSIVE RENOVATION IN THE 1970S.

ABOUT THE SAME TIME ARM OF THAT PARKWAY PLAZA WAS DEVELOPED, UM, LOOKS VERY SIMILAR TO OURS.

HAD A DILLARD'S, HAD A MACY'S, HAD A LOT OF THE STORES, HAD A, NORDSTROM HAD A LOT OF THE STORES THAT TYPICAL MALLS HAVE.

UM, THIS IS NOT DEVELOPED, BUT THEY HAVE A PLAN.

IT'S A, IT'S A 20 YEAR PLAN.

THAT'S WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE NOW.

THIS IS THEIR BUILD OUT PLAN FOR OVER A 20 YEAR PERIOD.

IT'S GOING TO HAVE HOUSING, IT'S GONNA HAVE NEW RETAIL, NEW OFFICE SPACE.

IT'S GONNA BE A HOTEL THERE.

AND THERE'LL BE A HEADQUARTERS FOR THE SEATTLE'S NHL TEAM, THE KRAKEN.

SO THAT WILL BE THEIR, THEIR HEADQUARTERS ALONG WITH A HOCKEY, HOCKEY RINK, PRACTICE RINK THERE.

SO A LOT IS OCCURRING ON THIS PROPERTY THAT USED TO LOOK LIKE THIS.

BUT NOW, EVENTUALLY OVER 20 YEAR PERIOD, IT WILL LOOK LIKE THIS.

SO YOU CAN SEE IT'S NOT JUST AN OVERNIGHT THING.

THERE'S NO MAGIC WAND.

THERE'S A LOT OF INVESTMENT, THERE'S A LOT OF, UM, VISIONING.

UM, AND THERE'S TIME FOR THESE THINGS TO OCCUR.

SO AS I SAID AT THE BEGINNING, THE CITY HAS NO OWNERSHIP, HAS NO ABIL, UM, ABILITY TO IMPOSE ITS RULE OR ITS WISHES.

BUT THERE ARE SOME THINGS THAT WE CAN DO.

ONE, WE CAN REMOVE THE RISK, WE ALSO CAN FACILITATE VISION AND WE CAN BRING PARTIES TOGETHER

[00:35:01]

AND, AND THAT FRANKLY HAS PROBABLY BEEN A CHALLENGE IN THE PAST OF HAVING THE PARTIES COME TOGETHER FOR THAT BROADER DISCUSSION.

SO I, I WANTED TO JUST SHARE REALLY QUICKLY SOME REAL, THESE ARE NO ARCHITECT WAS INVOLVED.

VERY LITTLE TIME WAS SPENT SORT OF MY VISION OF, OF THE POTENTIAL OF WHAT COULD OCCUR.

THINKING BACK ON, ON THESE THREE MODELS OF USING THE PARKING LOT, THINKING ABOUT, UM, REPURPOSING A PORTION OF THE MALL.

UM, THERE IS THE MALL PROPERTY, AS YOU WELL KNOW, FROM THE AERIAL.

SO HERE WOULD BE THE IDEA OF DEVELOPING OUT THE SURFACE PARKING LOTS, KEEPING THEM ALL AS IT IS.

UH, THE BLUE AREAS WOULD BE RESIDENTIAL FOR THE MOST PART, RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENT.

THE ORANGE WOULD BE ADDITIONAL RETAIL, PROBABLY MORE FOOD TYPE OF ESTABLISHMENTS.

AND THE GREEN WOULD BE PARKS IN GREEN SPACE THAT YOU COULD ADD TO BE AMENITIES FOR THOSE THAT LIVE THERE.

JUST REALLY QUICK AND DIRTY DRAWING WITH, UH, WITH BOXES ON A, ON A POWERPOINT.

UM, OR THINKING ABOUT SORT OF MORE OF A REPURPOSING IDEA.

YOU CONTINUE TO UTILIZE SOME OF THE SPACE IN THE PARKING LOTS.

BUT THEN YOU TAKE THE, THE EASTERN THIRD OF THE MALL WHERE THE MACY'S, FORMER MACY'S WAS THE JC PENNEY'S IN THAT AREA.

AND YOU CONVERT THAT INTO SOMETHING ELSE, WHETHER IT BE HOUSING OR OTHER PURPOSES, YOU HAVE A PRETTY GRANDIOSE PARK THAT WOULD CONNECT THAT AREA WITH THE EXISTING MALL.

YOU KEEP THE MOVIE THEATER, YOU KEEP SOME OF THE OTHER STORES ON THE OTHER SIDE.

UM, SO THAT'S KIND OF ANOTHER CONCEPT THAT COULD BE THOUGHT THROUGH.

AND THEN THE LAST IS, IS THINKING ABOUT JUST A WHOLE TRANSFORMATION AND SOMETHING BRAND NEW THERE.

I GUESS, YOU KNOW, THE SAN DIEGO DOES, DOES HAVE A NEW MLS TEAM, SO MAYBE WE NEED AN MLS HEADQUARTERS.

SO ANYWAY, SO, SO LET'S TALK ABOUT WHAT ARE, WHAT ARE SOME OF THE THINGS THAT WE CAN DO TO SUPPORT THIS REDEVELOPMENT? ONE IS THE VISIONING.

I THINK THIS IS THE VERY BEGINNING OF THAT DISCUSSION ABOUT THE VISION OF WHAT COULD OCCUR THERE.

UM, AND I'LL, I'LL COME BACK AND TALK ABOUT MAYBE HOW WE CAN TAKE A BIGGER ROLE IN THAT.

UM, THE NEXT IS THE LAND USE CHECK.

YOU'VE ALREADY DONE THAT.

THE ALREADY ESTABLISHED THE SPECIFIC PLAN.

YOU ALREADY HAVE DONE THE EIR WORK THAT ALLOWS THE RESIDENTIAL TO OCCUR.

UM, YOU'VE ALREADY DONE THE ZONING AND GENERAL PLAN AMENDMENTS.

I THINK ONCE A VISION WERE TO BE ESTABLISHED AND THAT THE COUNCIL LIKE THAT VISION AND THE OWNERS LIKE THAT VISION, THEN IT WOULD BE A MATTER OF HOW DO WE CREATE INCENTIVES OR REQUIREMENTS OF WHAT YOU WANNA SEE AT THE MALL TO, OR THE MALL PROPERTY TO MAKE THAT ACTUALLY HAPPEN.

AND THEN IT'S REALLY CREATING SOME, SOME LEGAL OPPORTUNITIES WHERE YOU BRING THEM TOGETHER LEGALLY WITH, WITH SOME DEVELOPMENT FORMATION AGREEMENTS THAT WOULD, UH, ALLOW THAT PROJECT TO BE DEVELOPED.

I THINK IT'S ALSO IMPORTANT TO RECOGNIZE THAT WE HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO WORK ON FUNDING SOURCES THROUGH SHARING OUR FUTURE, OUR TAX INCREMENT, OUR PROPERTY TAX INCREMENT.

THERE'S SOME WAYS TO HELP FINANCE SOME OF THE INFRASTRUCTURE.

SO WE CAN THINK ABOUT THAT FROM A STRATEGIC PERSPECTIVE OF, OF HOW THE CITY CAN FINANCE IT AND HAVE A WIN-WIN SCENARIO AND THEN REALLY WHAT THOSE INFRASTRUCTURES ARE.

SO LET'S TALK ABOUT NEXT STEPS.

UM, ONE, I THINK WE DO NEED TO HAVE SOME MEETINGS WITH THE, WITH THE OWNERSHIP GROUP.

UM, DAISY HAS INFORMED ME THAT THERE IS AN OWNERSHIP GROUP COMING IN AUGUST AND I'VE BEEN INVITED RIGHT? TO ATTEND.

IS THAT STILL ON? MAYBE? YES.

WE HAVE A CALL.

OKAY, WE'RE GONNA HAVE A CALL FIRST.

SO ANYWAY, SO THERE, THERE'S SOME HEADWAY MOVING IN MEETING WITH THOSE THAT ARE DECISION MAKERS.

I THINK IN ORDER TO REMOVE MORE RISK AND TO HELP UNDERSTAND THE VISION, WE'VE GOTTA GET BEYOND CITY MANAGERS, POWERPOINT, LITTLE SQUARES.

AND WE'VE GOTTA GET AN ARCHITECT ENGAGED AND WITH AN ECONOMIST AND ACTUALLY IDENTIFY WHAT WOULD THE COST BE TO BUILD SOME OF THIS STUFF.

WHAT WOULD BE THE, THE REVENUE STREAMS TO DO THAT? AND DOES ANY OF THIS MAKE ANY FINANCIAL SENSE AT ALL, RIGHT? BECAUSE WITHOUT THAT, IT'S JUST PIE IN THE SKY.

SO STAFF WOULD ACTUALLY RECOMMEND THAT THE CITY COUNCIL INITIALLY ALLOCATE $250,000 FOR US TO START ENGAGING WITH SOME CONSULTING FIRMS, UH, WITH AN UNDERSTANDING THAT IT'LL PROBABLY GET AS MUCH AS HALF A MILLION DOLLARS TO REALLY UNDERSTAND WHAT THAT PLAN AND WHAT THAT VISION COULD LOOK LIKE IN REALITY.

AND THEN WE CAN PITCH THAT TO THE OWNERSHIP GROUPS OF THOSE THAT OWN THE MALL.

I THINK ONCE THAT'S DEVELOPED, THEN WE WOULD COME BACK WITH SOME INCENTIVES.

WE STILL THINK THERE'S SOME BABY STEP THINGS THAT WE CAN DO THERE, UH, NI NATIONAL NIGHT OUT, SOME OTHER OPPORTUNITIES I THINK WE'RE GONNA S AT, AT A STAFF LEVEL, BE THINKING ABOUT THOSE TYPES OF OPPORTUNITIES TO ENGAGE MORE PEOPLE.

I'VE TALKED TO DAISY ABOUT POTENTIALLY CITY RUNNING A PICKLEBALL PROGRAM IN ONE OF THE EMPTY SPACES THERE.

LOVE TO SEE THAT MOVING FORWARD.

UM, AND LASTLY,

[00:40:01]

I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT THAT AT THE STAFF LEVEL AND THE CITY COUNCIL LEVEL, THAT WE HOLD THE LINE.

CURRENTLY, WE HAVE NOT ALLOWED DRIVE-THROUGHS FOR THE MOST PART ON FLETCHER AND JOHNSON.

AND I GOTTA TELL YOU, THERE'S A DEMAND FOR A DRIVE-THROUGH EVERY OTHER DAY.

AND I THINK IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT THAT WE HOLD THE LINE ON THAT BECAUSE ONCE A DRIVE-THROUGH GOES IN, UH, THE ABILITY TO REDEVELOP THAT SPACE WILL BE REALLY DIFFICULT TO DO.

UM, SO ANYWAYS, HAVING SAID THAT, I THINK THERE'S SOME VALUE OF HOLDING THAT LINE AND US MAKING A COMMITMENT THAT WE'LL DO THAT.

SO WITH THAT, UM, IF WE CAN HELP REMOVE THAT RISK AND FACILITATE THAT VISION, I THINK THAT'S SORT OF THE AREA THAT WE CAN HELP IN FACILITATING A READ REBIRTH OF PARKWAY PLAZA AT SOME POINT.

SO WITH THAT, I'M LOOKING FOR ANY COUNCIL THOUGHTS, ANY DISCUSSION, ANY FEEDBACK THAT WOULD YOU THINK WOULD BE HELPFUL TO THE, UH, STAFF AND THEN, UM, YOUR THOUGHTS ON, ON ALLOCATING SOME FUNDING FOR ARCHITECTURAL SERVICES? THANK YOU.

THAT WAS A GOOD PRESENTATION.

UM, I THINK WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT ONE THOUGHT THAT I HAVE, ESPECIALLY OUT HERE IN EAST COUNTY, WE NEED TO MAINTAIN SOME SEMBLANCE OF REFUGE FROM THE HEAT.

UM, AS THE SUMMER COMES UP, MORE AND MORE OF OUR SENIOR CITIZENS ARE GONNA NEED A PLACE TO GO.

UM, I KNOW MY NEIGHBORS WALK IN THE MALL IN THE MORNINGS AND THEY NEED THAT COOL SPACE TO BE ABLE TO GET OUT.

UM, I, I KNOW A LOT OF FAMILIES LIKE TO COME TO THE MALL TO ESCAPE THE HEAT.

SO IF ONE THING WE DO NEED TO KEEP THE INTEGRITY IS AT LEAST PROVIDING INDOOR, UM, SHOPPING EXPERIENCE, WHATEVER IT IS, UM, TO GIVE US SOME REFUGE FROM THE HEAT BECAUSE THE LIBRARIES CAN ONLY HOLD SO MUCH.

AND WITH THE COST OF LIVING GOING UP ALL THE TIME, UM, THIS IS SOMETHING THAT'S REALLY, UM, NEEDED.

UM, I LIKED THE IDEAS AND I WOULD BE CURIOUS TO SEE WHAT AN ARCHITECT WOULD COME UP WITH.

UM, I THOUGHT BRITISH COLUMBIA HAD A GREAT LOOKING MALL THERE THAT WAS PRETTY SPACE AGE LOOKING AND, UM, PRETTY FORWARD.

IT'D BE QUITE A CHANGE FOR EL CAJON TO HAVE SOMETHING THAT, UM, NEW AND SPACEY LOOKING.

BUT, UM, I'M WILLING TO, UM, ENTERTAIN THE IDEA OF PUTTING SOME MONEY OUT FOR AN ARCHITECT.

ARE THE BOND HOLDERS, DO THEY STILL OWN PART OF THAT PROPERTY OR HAVE THEY SOLD IT OR ARE THEY IN THE PROCESS OF SELLING? DO WE KNOW? I, I DON'T KNOW.

I JUST TOOK THE QUEUE FROM, UH, THE MALL MANAGER AND SHE SEEMED TO NOD HER HEAD THAT THEY STILL OWN IT AND THERE'S PROBABLY NOT AN INTEREST IN SELLING ANYTIME SOON.

OKAY, THANK YOU.

UH, THE MALL IS ONE OF OUR LARGEST SALES TAX CONTRIBUTORS.

I AT THE, THE MALL FUNDS, POLICE, FIRE PARAMEDICS, YOU KNOW, ALL THE THINGS THAT KEEP THIS CITY RUNNING.

SO I THINK IT'S OF VITAL IMPORTANCE THAT, UH, WE MAKE SURE THAT IT'S A VIABLE MALL.

SO, UH, I'M IN FAVOR OF THIS, UH, $250,000 THAT'S A DROP OF IN A BUCKET COMPARED TO THE KIND OF REVENUE THE MALL PROVIDES.

THIS CITY.

UH, THANK YOU GRAHAM, UH, WANT TO COMMEND YOU AND THE STAFF FOR ENLISTING THE HELP, ESPECIALLY THE FREE HELP OF OUR, UM, STUDENTS AT SAN DIEGO STATE.

THE CREATIVITY THERE WAS FANTASTIC TO GET THIS CONVERSATION ROLLING.

UM, YEAH.

MALLS ARE DYING ACROSS AMERICA, UM, AND REDEVELOPING THEM.

SO PEOPLE GOING TO THESE MALLS HAVE AN EXPERIENCE OR IT'S A DESTINATION.

UM, THAT'S WHAT REALLY MALLS ARE SHIFTING TO ALL ACROSS THE UNITED STATES.

AMAZ, IT'S THE AMAZON EFFECT.

PEOPLE AREN'T GOING TO SHOPS ANYMORE, THEY'RE JUST ORDERING THINGS ON AMAZON.

AND THEN COVID SPED THAT UP WITH THE DECLINE OF BUSINESSES BEING IN A PHYSICAL LOCATION.

AND SO, UM, TO RE-ENVISION THE MALL, I THINK IS A PRIORITY TO, TO COUNCILMAN KENDRICK'S POINT IS THAT IT'S ONE OF THE BIGGEST ASSETS THAT WE HAVE AT THE CITY WITH REGARD TO A PROPERTY.

UM, I KNOW FOR A FACT THAT DOWNTOWN SAN DIEGO EAST VILLAGE, THAT WAS NOT SOMETHING THAT HAPPENED PASSIVELY.

IT WAS ACTIVE, UM, COMMUNICATION AND COORDINATION BETWEEN PRIVATE SECTOR DEVELOPERS AND GOVERNMENT TO MAKE SURE THAT DOWNTOWN WAS THE PLACE THAT YOU ACTUALLY WANTED TO GO TO AS A DESTINATION.

UM, AND THEN I HEARD ONE

[00:45:01]

OF THE DEVELOPERS SAY, IF YOU WANTED TO GO DOWNTOWN, THE ONLY REASON YOU WENT WAS TO GO GET DRUGS AND TO GO TO COURT.

THAT WAS THE ONLY REASON YOU WENT DOWNTOWN.

UM, SO THEY CHANGED THAT PERCEPTION, UM, THROUGH A CONCERTED EFFORT.

AND I, I WOULD BE IN SUPPORT OF BRINGING DEVELOPER ARCHITECT, LET'S PRESENT OUR ASSET TO, YOU KNOW, THE COUNTRY, THE WORLD REALLY TO GET THE INVESTMENT THAT WE NEED TO REDEVELOP THIS SITE IN SOME WAY, SHAPE, OR FORM OR, OR, OR REDO IT.

GROSSMONT MALL WAS JUST BOUGHT.

THEY'RE GONNA REDEVELOP THEIRS.

UM, HORTON PLAZA, THEY COMPLETELY REDID THEIRS.

I TOOK A TOUR OF IT AND THEY DID THE START OVER THING.

THEY USED SOME OF THE INFRASTRUCTURE, BUT THEY'RE DOING THE WHOLE START OVER METHOD.

SO THERE ARE ORGANIZATIONS AND FUNDING SOURCES AND COMPANIES THAT ARE WILLING TO COME IN AND, AND DO ALL THIS.

UM, AND, AND TO BE HONEST, I MEAN, IT DOESN'T REALLY BOTHER ME THAT THE RESPONDENTS WERE FROM EL CAJON.

PEOPLE IN EAST COUNTY CROSS POLLINATE.

PEOPLE FROM SANT GO TO EL CAJON, LA MESA GOES TO SANTEE.

SO WE'RE NOT JUST TALKING ABOUT EL CAJON RESIDENTS, PEOPLE.

IF WE, IF THIS IS GONNA BE REDEVELOPED, PEOPLE FROM ALL OVER EAST COUNTY WOULD USE THAT, UM, USE THE MALL.

SO, UM, WITH THAT, YEAH, I WOULD BE 100% IN FAVOR OF TWO 50 TO 500, UM, TO, TO ESTABLISH THAT VISION FOR THE MALL.

AND, UM, YEAH, LOOK FORWARD TO REALLY PUTTING STAFF, UM, WITH THE TOOLS THEY NEED TO, TO, TO SET THIS AND, AND WORK WITH OUR PARTNERS AT PARKWAY.

THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE, DAISY.

APPRECIATE IT.

I'M OKAY WITH THE TWO 50, BUT I WOULD WAIT UNTIL YOU HAVE YOUR MEETING WITH THE MALL OWNERSHIP.

IF WE'RE GONNA GIVE SOMETHING, WE SHOULD ASK FOR SOMETHING AND THAT ASK MAY BE SOME KIND OF COMMITMENT FROM THEM.

UH, OTHERWISE WE HAVE SPENT MONEY PERHAPS ON SOMETHING THAT WE DON'T KNOW THAT THEY WANT TO DO.

SO I'M OKAY WITH THE TWO 50, BUT LET'S ASK FOR SOMETHING IN RETURN, SOME KIND OF COMMITMENT.

IT WILL BE A SHOW OF GOOD FAITH.

UH, BUT LET'S BE CAREFUL HOW FAR WE GET IN FRONT OF THIS.

YEAH, I AGREE.

AND JUST SO YOU KNOW, I MEAN, THIS WOULD REQUIRE A PROCUREMENT PROCESS.

SO WE'RE TALKING MONTHS TO GET EVEN SOMETHING OUT THE DOOR.

SO WE'LL HAVE, HOPEFULLY, I THINK YOU'RE RIGHT.

HOPEFULLY LOTS OF CONVERSATIONS WITH THE OWNERSHIP GROUPS, BECAUSE IF THERE IS ZERO INTEREST WHATSOEVER, I DON'T KNOW WHAT USE THAT, THAT WOULD BE THROWING MONEY, GOOD MONEY AT SOMETHING BAD.

SO I AGREE.

GRAHAM, IS THIS THE GROUP OF, UH, PEOPLE THAT PUT THIS ALL TOGETHER SITTING OVER HERE? DO WE HAVE THE STUDENTS HERE? NO, THEY'RE NOT.

THEY, THEY'VE GRADUATED AND, UH, THEY HAVE, THEY'RE OFF, THEY HAVE REAL JOBS NOW, AND, UM, SO YEAH, BREN BRENNA WAS A GRADUATE STUDENT THAT WORKED ON A, A, A LOSING CAPSTONE PROJECT, NOT THE WINNING CAPSTONE PROJECT, BUT SECOND PLACE.

THAT'S WHAT I HEARD.

UM, BUT NO, UH, THEY, WE, WE DID INVITE THEM, BUT THEY ALL HAD COMMITMENTS AND THEY'VE GRADUATED.

SO THEY'RE GOOD.

I THINK WE SHOULD THANK BRENNA ANYWAY, SINCE SHE'S THE ONLY ONE WHO SHOWED UP.

SO THANK YOU BRENNA.

, NICELY DONE.

OKAY, GREAT.

WELL, WELL WITH THAT, I MEAN, WE DON'T HAVE, UH, WE DON'T HAVE THE, WHEN WE COME BACK LATER DATE WITH RFP STUFF, WE WILL TAKE CARE OF THE BUDGETARY COMPONENTS THEN.

SO WITH THAT, YOU'VE GIVEN US SOME GREEN LIGHTS TO DO STUFF, BUT WE'RE NOT GONNA SPEND ANY MONEY, JUST SO YOU KNOW, UNTIL THAT GETS ALLOCATED APPROPRIATELY.

LET ME SEE IF THERE'S ANY, UH, SPEAKER CARDS ON THIS ITEM.

THANK YOU, SIR.

YES, WE HAVE ONE SPEAKER AND THAT WOULD BE MARSHALL ANDERSON.

HELLO, MARSHALL.

WELCOME.

THANK YOU, MAYOR.

THANK YOU COUNCIL MEMBERS.

AND UH, THANK YOU MR. MITCHELL FOR THE PRESENTATION.

UH, MARSHALL ANDERSON, I'M SPEAKING ON BEHALF OF SAGE INVESCO.

UH, AS THE NEW OWNERS OF THE SEARS BUILDING AND THE SURROUNDING PARKING PARCEL AT PARKWAY PLAZA, SAGE INVESCO APPRECIATES THE OPPORTUNITY TO DIALOGUE WITH YOUR PLANNING STAFF AND IS LOOKING FORWARD TO WORKING CLOSELY WITH THE CITY ON WAYS TO BETTER SERVE THE COMMUNITY AND REVITALIZE THE MALL FACILITY.

WE WOULD LIKE THE OPPORTUNITY BEFORE ANY FORMAL ACTION IS TAKEN AS IT RELATES TO THE PROPERTY, TO HAVE CONTINUED DIALOGUE ABOUT WHAT MAKES SENSE FOR THE SITE.

AS YOU KNOW, IN COUNCIL MEMBER ORTIZ, YOU NAILED IT.

UH, RETAIL AND CONSUMER NEEDS HAVE BEEN CHANGING FOR SOME TIME.

AND IN THE EVOLVING MALL SPACE, A MORE DIVERSE AND MODERN SET OF USES IS NEEDED TO HELP ACTIVATE AND IMPROVE NOT ONLY CUSTOMER TRAFFIC FLOW, UH, BUT ALSO

[00:50:01]

TO ENSURE THAT PARKWAY PLAZA REMAINS AN ECONOMIC CATALYST AND JOBS CREATOR FOR YEARS TO COME.

WITH THAT, JUST WANNA SAY WE LOOK FORWARD TO WORKING WITH YOU, AND THANK YOU FOR THE TIME.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

NO OTHER SPEAKERS, SIR.

UM, SO GRAHAM, YOU NEED A MOTION TO APPROVE THE 250,000? NO, I DON'T THINK SO.

WE'LL, WE'LL BRING THAT BACK FORMALLY FOR COUNCIL TO APPROVE AT A LATER DATE WHEN WE ACTUALLY HAVE A, A CONTRACTOR, A CONSULTANT THAT WE CAN, UH, ENGAGE WITH YOU ON SO WELL.

SOUNDS GOOD.

AND I'M GLAD THAT YOU'RE WORKING WITH THE OWNERS.

I THINK THAT SHOULD WORK OUT REALLY WELL.

[11. Summary of Town Hall Meetings Focusing on Homelessness RECOMMENDATION: That the City Council receives and discusses the findings of the Homeless Town Hall Meetings.]

STILL HOUSE PRICES CONTINUE TO GO UP SEC, THE SECTION EIGHT WAITING LIST IS YEARS AND YEARS.

ITEM 11 IS A SUMMARY OF THE TOWN HALL MEETINGS AND ABOUT HOMELESSNESS.

RECENTLY HELD US CITY MANAGER TO PLEASE INTRODUCE THIS ITEM TO US.

THANK YOU, MR. MAYOR.

AND AGAIN, THE CITY COUNCIL.

THIS, THIS WILL BE MORE BRIEF THAN THE LAST ONE.

I APOLOGIZE.

YOU HAVE TO LISTEN TO ME FOR TWO AGENDA ITEMS IN A ROW.

UM, BUT ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE PROMISED TO DO AS PART OF THE HOMELESS TOWN HALLS, THE, THE FOUR THAT WE CONDUCTED IS TO PROVIDE A SUMMARY TO THE CITY COUNCIL.

AND SO THE COMMUNITY COULD HEAR SOME OF THE THINGS THAT OCCURRED THERE AS, AS YOU RECALL, CUZ YOU WERE THERE.

UH, WE REALLY COVERED A COUPLE, A LOT OF ITEMS IN THE SHORT AMOUNT OF TIME THAT WE SPENT AT THE TOWN HALLS.

WE IDENTIFIED AND EXPLAINED ALL THE DIFFERENT CITY PROGRAMS THAT WE'VE BEEN RUNNING, THE LIMITATIONS THAT EXIST IN CALIFORNIA, SOME OF THE SUCCESSES THAT WE'VE HAD.

AND THEN WE BROKE INTO SMALL GROUP DISCUSSIONS AND GOT SOME IDEAS.

AND THAT'S WHAT I'LL BE SHARING.

THE MAJORITY OF MY PRESENTATION WILL BE THE IDEAS THAT WERE, THAT WERE, UM, FOMENTED DURING THOSE SMALL GROUP DISCUSSIONS.

AND THEN, UH, THEN THEY ALL CAME BACK AND REPORTED BACK AND SHARED THEIR BIG IDEAS.

SO, UM, WITH THAT, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE REALLY WANTED TO UNDERSTAND IS, DID THE TOWN HALL MAKE A DIFFERENCE OR WAS IT JUST WORDS? AND SO WE DID A, A PRE AND A POST-SURVEY AND WE ASKED THE QUESTION, UM, ABOUT, YOU KNOW, HOW, HOW WELL IS THE CITY ADDRESSING HOMELESSNESS? AND I THOUGHT THIS WAS REALLY USEFUL, UM, BEFORE THE MEETING BEGAN.

OUT OF A OUT OF 10, THE AVERAGE RESPONSE IS 5.78, AND BY THE END OF THE TOWN HALLS IT INCREASES 7.06.

SO THAT'S A 22% IMPROVEMENT.

THAT'S, THAT'S NOT BAD, RIGHT? UM, BUT I STILL THINK THERE'S OPPORTUNITIES FOR IMPROVEMENT.

AND GRANTED, THIS IS THE SCORE OF A VERY NARROW GROUP OF PEOPLE.

MS. MITCHELL ASKED ABOUT THE, THE VALIDITY OF A SURVEY WITH 3000.

THIS WAS EVEN A MORE, NOT ONLY SMALLER, BUT A VERY SPECIALIZED SUBGROUP THAT REALLY WANTED TO ATTEND.

AND AS THE STAFF REPORT INDICATED, I BELIEVE ABOUT ALMOST 20% OF THOSE THAT ATTENDED WERE EITHER THERE ON ASSIGNMENT BECAUSE OF THE ORGANIZATION THEY REPRESENT OR HAD ATTENDED MANY OF THEM, OR SEVERAL OF THEM, OR MORE THAN ONE OF THEM.

SO ANYWAYS, IT WAS A VERY DIFFERENT GROUP OF INDIVIDUALS THAN I WOULD SAY THE AVERAGE PUBLIC.

AND AS I SHARE THIS, I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO KEEP THAT IN MIND, THAT, THAT THESE IDEAS ARE A BIT SKEWED BECAUSE OF THE SELF-SELECTION INVOLVED.

SO ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE ASKED DURING THE, UM, SMALL GROUP DISCUSSIONS IS WHAT ARE, WHAT ARE SOME THINGS THAT THE CITY'S NOT DOING OR WE SHOULD DO MORE OF? UH, THERE WAS THIS CONCEPT OF MORE OPTIONS, MORE SHELTER OPTIONS, MORE SAFE PARKING, CAMPING, A DAY CENTER PERHAPS.

THERE WAS ALSO, UM, WE HEARD THROUGHOUT THE TOWN HALLS THE NEED FOR MORE HOUSING, JUST GENERAL HOUSING, NOT EVEN AFFORDABLE HOUSING, JUST MORE HOUSING STOCK.

WE HEARD SOME DIFFERENT IDEAS FOR TYPES OF HOUSING AS WELL, LIKE SMALL, KINDA THAT POST WORLD WAR II HOUSING.

WE HEARD SOME, SOME REQUESTS FOR THAT.

UM, WE HEARD A, A REQUEST FOR MORE OUTREACH EFFORTS, UH, BROADER OUTREACH EFFORT.

UH, WE HEARD THE NEED TO ALSO BAN PUBLIC CAMPING AND SLEEPING IN VEHICLES ON CITY STREETS, AND THEN REALLY A FOCUS ON SUBSTANCE ABUSE AND MENTAL ILLNESS.

WE ALSO ASKED, YOU KNOW, WHAT DO WE DO WITH THOSE THAT, UM, ARE HERE AS A REGION? WE'RE SPENDING MILLIONS AND MILLIONS AND MILLIONS OF DOLLARS AND THE CITY IS SPENDING A LOT OF MONEY, YET THE PROBLEM DOESN'T SEEM TO GET MUCH BETTER.

AND I MEAN, I, I HAVE SOME PERSONAL BELIEFS WHY THAT'S THE CASE.

I THINK WE ARE PROBABLY FOCUSING OUR ATTENTION ON THE WRONG THING.

BUT ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE WANTED TO GET OUT OF THIS IS THOSE THAT ARE ATTENDING, WHAT ARE, WHAT ARE THEY SEEING? WHY, WHY DO THEY THINK MAYBE THINGS AREN'T WORKING? AND SOME OF THE IDEAS THAT WERE DEVELOPED WERE, THERE'S STILL LIMITED SHELTER OPTIONS THROUGHOUT THE COUNTY.

UM, THE COST OF HOUSING CONTINUES TO CLIMB DESPITE THE, THIS, THIS ALLEGED RECESSION OR THIS, THIS SLOWING DOWN IN THE ECONOMY

[00:55:01]

IN SOME CASES, AGAIN, WE'RE NOT ADDRESSING THE CORE ROOT PROBLEMS. THE, THE ISSUES OF MENTAL ILLNESS AND DRUG ABUSE AND THEN JUST THE PERMISSIVE DRUG, UH, DRUG ALLOWANCE AND THE PERMISSIVE LAWS IN THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA MAKE IT DIFFICULT FOR US TO ADDRESS HOMELESSNESS, AT LEAST FROM A LAW ENFORCEMENT PERSPECTIVE, WHICH WAS, HAS BEEN THE WAY WE'VE ADDRESSED HOMELESSNESS FOR YEARS AND YEARS AND YEARS.

WE ALSO ASKED, WHAT DO YOU DO WITH THOSE THAT HAVE NO INTEREST IN RECEIVING HELP? BECAUSE WE DO KNOW, WE APPROACH INDIVIDUALS ALL THE TIME WITH OPPORTUNITIES TO GET INVOLVED WITH PROGRAMS, TO HAVE TEMPORARY HOUSING, UH, TO GET OFF THE STREETS.

AND THOSE, THOSE SERVICES ARE REFUSED FOR LOTS OF DIFFERENT REASONS, MOSTLY BECAUSE OF MENTAL ILLNESS AND DRUG USE.

UM, BUT SO WE ASKED THE QUESTION, WHAT DO WE DO WITH THOSE THOUGH THAT ARE REFUSING HELP? AND WE HEARD OVER AND OVER AGAIN, DON'T GIVE UP.

KEEP, KEEP DOING WHAT YOU'RE DOING.

UH, REDUCE BARRIERS.

UH, IF WE HAVE SHELTERS THAT DON'T ALLOW DOGS, THEN THERE'S A LOT OF PEOPLE THAT ARE NATURALLY NOT GONNA GO INTO A SHELTER.

IF WE, UH, HAVE SHELTERS THAT REQUIRE YOU TO BE CLEAN, THERE'S PEOPLE THAT WON'T GO INTO SHELTER.

UH, WE ALSO HEARD FROM, FROM INDIVIDUALS THAT WERE EXPERIENCING HOMELESSNESS, THAT WE SHOULD BE CUTTING OFF FINANCIAL AID.

NOW WE DON'T GIVE FINANCIAL AID, SO IT'S NOT AN AREA THAT WE CAN CONTROL, BUT I THOUGHT THAT WAS AN INTERESTING PERSPECTIVE FROM INDIVIDUALS EXPERIENCING HOMELESSNESS, THAT THEY SEE THE ABUSE OF THE SYSTEM BY SOME THAT ARE ON THE STREETS.

AND THEN REALLY TO FOCUS ON ADDRESSING ADDICTION BEFORE WE DO ANYTHING ELSE.

UM, WE ALSO ASKED, YOU KNOW, GIVEN THE FACT THAT WE HAVE LIMITED RESOURCES AND WE CAN'T DO EVERYTHING FOR EVERYBODY, IF WE WERE TO FOCUS OUR LIMITED RESOURCES ON ONE THING, WHAT SHOULD IT BE? AND THIS IS, THIS IS RANKED ORDER BY WHAT WE HEARD, UH, FOCUSING ON FACILITIES THAT CAN ADDRESS MENTAL ILLNESS AND SUBSTANCE ABUSE FOLLOWED BY PERMANENT HOUSING, THEN A DAY CENTER AND THEN SAFE PARKING OR A CAMPING AREA AND THEN IN ANOTHER EMERGENCY SHELTER IN THE CITY.

UM, I THINK THAT THIS, UM, IN SOME WAYS ALIGNS WITH OUR FOCUS RIGHT NOW.

I MEAN, WE'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT MENTAL ILLNESS AND DRUG SUBSTANCE ABUSE.

WE DON'T DO ANYTHING IN THAT REALM, PARTLY BECAUSE WE'RE NOT THE AGENCY THAT RECEIVES FUNDING IN THAT AREA, BUT IT'S SOMETHING THAT WE'VE BEEN TALKING A LOT ABOUT.

BUT WE DO KNOW THAT OUR NUMBER ONE GOAL IS PERMANENT HOUSING.

SO IT WAS KIND OF ASSURING TO HEAR THAT THOSE THAT WERE TAKING THE DIS GROUP DISCUSSIONS DID HONE IN ON THE PERMANENT HOUSING.

UM, THERE WAS WHERE I THINK THERE MAY BE SOME MISALIGNMENT, AND MAYBE I COULD BE WRONG.

I DON'T KNOW IF THE GENERAL RESIDENTS IN THE CITY OF EL CAJON WANT A DAY CENTER, AND I DON'T KNOW IF THEY WANT ANOTHER SHELTER IN THE CITY.

I'M NOT SURE IF THAT'S WHAT THEY WANT.

UM, BUT I DON'T KNOW.

IT'S ONE OF THE REASONS WHY I THINK WE NEED TO HAVE MORE CONVERSATIONS.

UM, LASTLY, WE ASKED, I GUESS NEXT TO LAST WE ASKED WHAT DOES SUCCESS LOOK LIKE? I MEAN, WE COULD DO THIS OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN, BUT IF WE'RE NOT, IF WE'RE NOT KNOWING WHAT WE SHOULD BE TRYING TO ACCOMPLISH, THEN MAYBE WE'RE CHASING THE WRONG THING.

SO ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I THOUGHT WAS IMPORTANT THAT THE GROUP RECOGNIZES THAT THERE SHOULD BE REGIONAL PARODY AMONGST HOW HOMELESSNESS NOT ONLY IMPACTS COMMUNITIES, BUT THE PARTICIPATION OF OTHER COMMUNITIES.

AND SO I WOULD SAY THIS COUNTY HAS NO PARODY WHEN IT COMES TO HOMELESS SHELTERS OR HOMELESS SERVICES.

WE KNOW THAT THE ONE, THE ONE OF THE LARGEST SHELTERS THAT EXIST IN THE ENTIRE COUNTY HAPPENS TO BE IN EL CAJON.

AND WE KNOW THAT CITIES FROM ALL OVER THE COUNTY RELY ON THAT AS THEIR SOURCE OF SHELTER SPACE.

I WOULDN'T CALL THAT PARODY.

UM, WHAT'S FRUSTRATING TO ME IS THE REGIONAL ORGANIZATIONS THAT TALK ABOUT THE NEED FOR MORE ROBUST SERVICES ALSO SEEM TO ENDORSE THIS CONCEPT THAT ONE CITY IN EL CAJON SHOULD SHOULDER MORE THAN OTHER CITIES.

AND THAT HAS BEEN REINFORCED BY LETTERS.

IT'S BEEN REINFORCED BY PUBLIC COMMENTS.

IT'S BEEN REINFORCED BY LETTERS TO THE ATTORNEY GENERAL, UM, FROM OUR OWN REGIONAL ORGANIZATION.

THE REGIONAL TASK FORCE ON HOMELESSNESS IS, HAS NOT BEEN FOCUSING ON REGIONAL PARITY, WHERE I THINK THAT NEEDS TO BE THEIR FOCUS HERE FORWARD.

UM, THE OTHER THING THEY TALKED ABOUT WAS NEIGHBORHOODS SHOULD FEEL AND LOOK SAFE AND CLEAN.

PEOPLE WANT, UH, DON'T WANNA SEE SHELTERS OR ENCAMPMENTS POPPING UP.

THEY DON'T WANNA SEE NEEDLES ON THE STREET.

THEY DON'T WANNA SEE TRASH LEFT BEHIND.

UM, THEY ALSO WANNA ENSURE THAT THERE'S THIS BALANCE

[01:00:01]

BETWEEN INTEREST BECAUSE THERE IS A LOT OF COMPETING INTERESTS IN THE HOMELESS PROGRAMS THAT WE OFFER.

WE ARE, WE'RE TRYING TO HELP INDIVIDUALS, BUT AT THE SAME TIME, WE'RE NOT ALLOWING CAMPING.

RIGHT? SO THERE'S THIS BALANCING ACT.

AND SO THERE WAS THIS INTEREST FOR, FOR AT LEAST SUCCESS WOULD LOOK LIKE.

WE ARE BALANCING THAT IN AN APPROPRIATE WAY, WHATEVER APPROPRIATE MEANS.

SO THE LAST QUESTION WE ASKED ABOUT WAS YOU KNOW WHAT SHOULD BE DOING MORE OF, OR MAYBE LESS OF.

BUT THINGS THAT WE HEARD WAS BREAKING UP ILLEGAL ENCAMPMENTS.

UM, PROVIDING MORE OUTREACH WITH, WITH GREATER WRAPAROUND SERVICES, ENSURING THAT, THAT THERE'S SOME ACCOUNTABILITY WITH HOW THE MONEY'S BEING SPENT IN OUR OWN COMMUNITY.

AND NOT JUST FROM OUR OWN CITY MONEY, BUT EVERYBODY'S MONEY.

CUZ WE KNOW MILLIONS OF DOLLARS ARE BEING SPENT.

A LOT OF THAT ENDS THE CITY OF EL CAJON.

AND IS IT MAKING A DIFFERENCE? ONE OF THE THINGS I THOUGHT WAS INTERESTING IS LESS BLAMING, ALTHOUGH I JUST BLAME SOMEBODY.

UM, BUT, BUT WE DO POINT OUR FINGERS, OUR FINGERS AT A LOT OF FOLKS AND THERE'S A LOT OF FINGER POINTING THAT GOES ALONG ON THIS COUNTY.

UM, AND THEN THE, THE ONGOING, THE NEED, THE RECOGNITION THAT, UH, ONE PROGRAM DOESN'T FIT EVERYBODY, WHERE THE HOUSING FIRST MODEL MAY WORK FOR SOME, CLEARLY THE HOUSING FIRST MODEL DOESN'T WORK FOR OTHERS.

AND I THINK THERE'S A NEED TO HAVE SOME DIFFERENCE OF PROGRAMS TO ENSURE THAT EVERYONE'S NEEDS ARE BEING MET.

AND THEN, THEN THE ABILITY TO SHARE SUCCESS STORIES, WHICH CAN BE COMPLICATED.

UM, WHEN WE GET SOMEONE OFF THE STREET, THEY MAY NOT WANT US IN THEIR HOME TAKING PICTURES OF THEIR NEW SETUP AND SAYING, LOOK AT THESE PEOPLE.

NOW THEY'RE IN THE HOUSE.

SO, UM, WE, WE'LL DO SOME MORE BRAINSTORMING AT THE STAFF LEVEL TO SEE HOW WE CAN SHARE SOME OF OUR SUCCESSES, WHETHER IT'S DATA.

BUT HAVING THAT PERSONAL STORY IS REALLY IMPORTANT.

I MEAN, MR. ORTEGA IS A GREAT EXAMPLE.

WE, WE SAW NOT NINE INDIVIDUALS, AND THERE'S SOME THAT WOULD SAY NINE INDIVIDUALS IS LIKE NOTHING IN THE DR IT'S A DROP IN THE BUCKET, RIGHT? BUT THE REALITY IS, IF, IF EVERY COMPANY LARGE AND SMALL TOOK ON TWO PEOPLE OR ONE PERSON, IMAGINE THE DIFFERENCE THAT COULD BE MADE.

AND SO SHARING THOSE TYPES OF EX EXPERIENCES ARE REALLY IMPORTANT, I THINK.

SO WITH THAT, UM, REALLY QUICKLY, LET ME, LET ME JUST KIND OF, UH, FOCUS ON A COUPLE OTHER DATA POINTS.

AS PART OF THAT SURVEY WE DID ASK ABOUT, UM, WAS HOME IS HOMELESSNESS IMPORTANT TO YOU? IT STAYED ABOUT THE SAME.

SO THE, THE TOWN HALLS HAD NO INFLUENCE OF WHETHER HOMELESS IS IMPORTANT.

AS YOU CAN SEE, IT'S, IT'S PRETTY IMPORTANT ON A SCALE OF 10.

UH, WE ALSO ASKED A, UM, THE IMPORTANCE OF FINDING PERMANENT HOUSING.

YOU CAN SEE THAT, THAT OUR MESSAGING IN THE TOWN HALL MEETINGS ACTUALLY DID INFLUENCE SOME FOLKS TO THINK MORE ABOUT THE IDEA OF PERMANENT HOUSING, WHICH I THINK IS IMPORTANT.

BUT I ALSO THOUGHT IT WAS INTERESTING THAT THERE WAS ACTUALLY A, UH, A LESS OF, UH, IMPORTANCE OF CLEANING UP ENCAMPMENTS, WHICH I DO NOT THINK THAT THAT ALIGNS AT ALL WITH OUR RESIDENTS WHEN BASED ON THE CALLS THAT, THAT WE GET IN THE CITY MANAGER'S OFFICE AND THE EMAILS THAT WE RECEIVE THAT YOU RECEIVE, I, I DO NOT THINK THAT ALIGNS WITH THE GENERAL PUBLIC'S PERCEPTION OF WHAT WE SHOULD BE DOING.

UM, SO LASTLY, I THINK THE TOWN HALLS WERE HELPFUL BUT NOT DEFINITIVE.

AS PART OF THAT, WE HAVE REACHED OUT TO PTAS, THE BUSINESS COMMUNITY.

SO WE'RE TRYING, UM, WE ACTUALLY MET WITH THE PTA COUN PRESIDENT'S COUNCIL, AND WE HAVE AT LEAST ONE INVITATION IN THE BEGINNING OF THE SCHOOL YEAR TO GO TO A PTA SITE.

UM, WE ARE WORKING WITH A CHURCH RIGHT NOW THAT'S TRYING TO ENGAGE A WHOLE BUNCH OF OTHER CHURCHES AND INVITE US TO THEIR CHURCH FACILITY AND THEY'LL INVITE A WHOLE BUNCH OF THEIR NEIGHBORING CHURCHES TO THAT.

SO THAT'S BEING WORKED ON, LIKELY BE IN AUGUST.

WE'RE WORKING ON SOME DATES.

I'D LOVE SOME FOR SOME CITY COUNCIL INVOLVEMENT THERE.

WE'RE PLANNING ON HOSTING A SPECIFIC BUSINESS TOWN HALL, UH, WITH THE CHAMBER OF COMMERCE.

WE'RE WORKING WITH THEM ON SOME DATES ALSO IN AUGUST.

SO WE'RE HOPING TO GET A, SOME ADDITIONAL VOICES AND PERSPECTIVES CUZ WHAT WE DID NOT SEE AT THE TOWN HALLS IS WE DID NOT SEE VERY MANY PARENTS.

WE SAW VERY FEW PEOPLE FROM THE RECENT IMMIGRANT COMMUNITY.

WE'VE ALSO, BY THE WAY, REACHED OUT TO MOHAMMAD TOMA TO TRY TO GET IN BEFORE HIS GROUP.

SO I THINK THERE'S A, THERE'S, IT'S IMPORTANT THAT WE HEAR FROM SOME DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVES THAN JUST THE GROUPS THAT WE HEARD FROM BEFORE.

UM, AND THEN I THINK, I THINK AT, AT THE REGIONAL LEVEL AND AT THE, AT THE CITY LEVEL, I THINK WE NEED TO START SEEING HOW WE ACTUALLY CAN MOVE THE DIAL WHEN IT COMES TO MENTAL ILLNESS AND, UH, DRUG ADDICTION.

AND THEN WE HEARD A CALL FOR ANOTHER SHELTER OR DAY CENTER, AND I THINK IT'D BE IMPORTANT FOR STAFF TO UNDERSTAND WHAT THE CITY COUNCIL'S APPETITE IS FOR THAT.

UM, ONE OF MY CONCERNS IS THAT WE CONTINUE TO SHOULDER MORE AND MORE AND MORE WHERE OTHER OUR NEIGHBORING CITIES HAVE NOT THUS FAR.

UM, SO

[01:05:01]

WHEN WE CONCLUDE, IT'D BE IMPORTANT FOR ME AS A STAFF MEMBER TO KIND OF HEAR WHAT IS IT THAT THE COUNCIL WANTS IN TERMS OF US FOCUSING ON EITHER ANOTHER SHELTER OR A DAY CENTER.

SO WITH THAT, STAFF'S HERE TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS AND WE'D LOVE TO HEAR YOUR DISCUSSION.

THANK YOU, GRAHAM.

UM, QUESTIONS FOR GRAHAM.

STEVE, YOU WANNA START? ONE OF MY TAKEAWAYS FROM THE, UM, FORUMS WAS THAT THE RESIDENTS SEEMED TO SAY, WHAT ARE THE OTHER CITIES GOING TO DO? ARE THEY GONNA GIVE US MONEY IF WE'RE GONNA BUY A SHELTER? ONE OF MY CONCERNS IS IF WE BUILD ANOTHER SHELTER IN THE CITY, THAT OTHER CITIES WILL USE US EVEN MORE THAN THEY ARE ALREADY.

NOW WE KNOW THAT I COULD NAME FOUR CITIES THAT USE FACILITIES IN EL CAJON MOTELS AND TRANSITIONAL HOUSING FOR THEIR SHELTER AVAILABILITY SO THAT THEY CAN ENFORCE BOISE.

I'M AFRAID IF WE JUST BUILD ANOTHER SHELTER, THEY'RE JUST GOING TO RAMP IT UP EVEN MORE.

SO I THINK THE PUBLIC WOULD BE CONCERNED ABOUT BUILDING ANOTHER SHELTER HERE.

UH, I DID SIT IN A PRESENTATION FOR SUN BREAK RANCH, WHICH IS KIND OF A, A DOWNTOWN PARTNERSHIP.

THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT IT ON MIRAMAR LAND.

I DON'T SEE THAT GOING ANYWHERE.

IT'S FEDERAL LAND, IT'S MILITARY LAND, AND THAT I MAY NOT BE ALIVE IF THAT THING EVER GETS PASSED ON ON THAT KIND OF LAND, IT WOULD TAKE SO LONG.

I SEE THAT CONCEPT THOUGH, WORKING WELL IN SOME WAYS.

I HAVE EIGHT QUESTIONS I'VE POSED TO THEM.

UH, WHAT IF THEY DON'T WANNA STAY? WHAT IF THEY DON'T WANT TO? HOW DO THEY GET OFF THE RANCH? I THINK THAT'S A GOOD CONCEPT FOR COUNTY UNINCORPORATED LAND HOMELESSNESS IS A COUNTY WIDE ISSUE, AND IT WOULD BE NICE TO SEE THE COUNTY STEP UP WITH LAND FOR THIS KIND OF A THING, UH, THAT WOULD SERVE THE ENTIRE REGION FOR A COUNTY SOLUTION.

AND FINALLY, I GUESS I'D JUST LIKE TO ACKNOWLEDGE OUR POLICE DEPARTMENT SPECIAL ENFORCEMENT UNIT WHO REALLY DO BREAK UP ENCAMPMENTS VERY QUICKLY.

UH, PROBABLY WITHIN A COUPLE OF DAYS THAT THE NUMBER OF TIMES THAT I REPORT THEM IS, I THINK I'VE DONE ONE THIS YEAR SO FAR WHERE I DID DOZENS LAST YEAR.

SO THEIR EFFORTS CERTAINLY ARE KEEPING, UH, THE PUBLIC HEALTH, UH, GOOD, KEEPING THE SAFETY OF NEIGHBORHOODS GOOD.

AND, UH, WE'VE GOT A GREAT, GREAT COMBINATION OF THINGS GOING RIGHT NOW.

I WOULD PROBABLY SUPPORT THE SUN BREAK RANCH ON COUNTY PROPERTY.

IF I CAN COMMENT ON MR. GOEBBELS COMMENT.

I, I WAS RECENTLY TALKING WITH SOMEBODY IN OUR SPECIAL ENFORCEMENT UNIT AND HE MENTIONED HE'S NEVER WORKED IN A POLICE ASSIGNMENT WHERE THERE IS SO MUCH INTEREST IN WHAT HE DID, BUT THERE'S A LOT OF INTEREST IN WHAT HE DOES AT ALL LEVELS OF THE COMMUNITY FROM THE CITY COUNCIL ALL DOWN TO, UH, AVERAGE RESIDENT.

SO, PHIL, I'LL GO TO GARY AFTER THAT.

IN AND GRABBING, UH, THEIR PRODUCTS AND RUNNING OUT THE DOOR.

THANK YOU, GRAHAM.

UH, AS I SAID BEFORE THIS, THE TOWN HALLS WERE FANTASTIC.

THE STRUCTURE OF THEM, I THINK THAT SHOULD BE A MODEL, UH, FOR ANY MORE PUBLIC ENGAGEMENT TOWN HALL WHERE THE PUBLIC CAN, CAN GIVE THEIR EXPERIENCE AND, AND, UM, THEIR IDEAS AND QUESTIONS.

IT, IT WAS A POSITIVE EXPERIENCE AS OPPOSED TO THE TRADITIONAL TOWN HALL WHERE, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE ARE JUST YELLING.

UM, SO, UM, ONE THING THAT I GOT OUT OF THIS WAS WE NEED TO DEFINE WHAT TYPE OF HOMELESS PERSON WE'RE TALKING ABOUT.

UM, AND I THINK WHEN, WHEN THE PUBLIC AND, UM, STAFF OR ELECTED OFFICIALS DEFINE WHAT TYPE OF HOMELESS PERSON WERE DISCUSSING, UM, 99% OF THE TIME THE PUBLIC AGREES WITH, UM, HOW THOSE INDIVIDUALS SHOULD BE DEALT WITH.

WHETHER IT'S THE PROP 57 EARLY RELEASE CRIMINAL, OR IT'S THE, UM, SINGLE MOM LIVING OUT OF HER CAR, OR WHETHER IT'S THE PERSON WITH MENTAL HEALTH AND ADDICTION ISSUES.

I'VE SAID THAT AT EVERY TOWN HALL.

AND I THINK WE REALLY NEED TO LEAD WITH THAT DEFINITION WHENEVER WE HAVE THESE DISCUSSIONS.

UM, OR ELSE WE'RE JUST GONNA TALK OVER EACH OTHER AND FIGHT.

UM, THE OTHER THING I'M REALIZING IS I'M VERY, I FIND IT VERY, I DON'T FEEL COMFORTABLE DEFINING PEOPLE WITH ADDICTION AND MENTAL HEALTH AS HOMELESS.

I, I REFERRING TO THEM AS HOMELESS MEANS THAT THAT'S THEIR NUMBER ONE ISSUE.

THAT'S THEIR MOST IMMEDIATE NEED, IS THAT THEY DON'T HAVE A ROOF OVER THEIR HEAD.

AND I'D BE VERY, IT'S VERY DIFFICULT FOR ME TO LOOK AT SOMEONE WHO'S IN CRISIS, UM, WHETHER BECAUSE OF MENTAL HEALTH OR DRUG, UM, INDUCED PSYCHOSIS ON METH, RUNNING, RUNNING THROUGH TRAFFIC AND LOOKING AT THEM AND SAYING WHAT THAT PERSON NEEDS IS A HOME THAT'S VERY DIFFICULT FOR ME TO CALL

[01:10:01]

IT A HOMELESS ISSUE.

SO, I, I DON'T FEEL COMFORTABLE CALLING IT A HOMELESS ISSUE.

IT'S A DRUG AND MENTAL HEALTH CRISIS THAT THOSE PEOPLE ARE EXPERIENCING NOW.

THE HOME, THE MOM LIVING OUT OF HER CAR, THAT'S TRADITIONALLY WHAT WE WOULD DESCRIBE AS THAT SHE'S HOMELESS.

SHE NEEDS HELP, SHE NEEDS A HAND UP.

UM, SO WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THIS TOPIC, I THINK DEFINING THOSE TERMS, UM, IS, IS CRUCIALLY IMPORTANT.

THE OTHER THING IS NOT ALL SHELTERS, NOT ALL HOMELESS SHELTERS ARE CREATED EQUAL.

AND I THINK THAT, UM, WITH REGARD TO MR. GOEBBELS POINT AND OUR CITY MANAGER'S POINT, UM, OTHER CITIES OR MUNICIPALITIES OR EVEN COMMUNITIES NOT WANTING SHELTERS, MAYBE WE BRING OTHER ELECTED OFFICIALS ON A TOUR OF E C T L C OR OF, UM, THE, UH, TINY HOME VILLAGE AT, AT MERIDIAN BAPTIST, AND LET THEM TELL THEM, HEY, DRIVE BY ON A TUESDAY AT ONE O'CLOCK OR SATURDAY AT, YOU KNOW, 10 O'CLOCK AT NIGHT.

AND YOU CAN SEE THAT THE IMPACT THAT YOU THINK IT'S GOING TO BE ON YOUR COMMUNITY IS, IS NOT, UM, WHAT YOU THINK IT'S GOING TO BE.

UM, AND, AND MAYBE, YOU KNOW, PRESSING OUR COLLEAGUES A LITTLE BIT TO ASK THEM, YOU KNOW, WHAT NEEDS TO HAPPEN FOR YOU TO SUPPORT A PROJECT IN YOUR AREA? UM, WHAT MAYBE IT'S JUST A TOUR, UH, OF A FACILITY.

UM, SO AS LONG AS YOU HAVE A CONTRACTOR THAT'S OPERATING THE SHELTER SPACE RESPONSIBLY, UM, IT HAS A VERY MINIMAL EFFECT.

AND IN FACT, I WOULD SAY THAT E C T L C HAS A POSITIVE EFFECT ON THAT AREA, UM, AS OPPOSED TO WHAT PEOPLE PERCEIVE AS A NEGATIVE EFFECT.

THAT E C TLC, THAT AREA, THAT IS A GOOD, THAT IS A PROPERTY THAT IS BETTER BECAUSE E CT E C TLC IS THERE.

UM, I AGREE WITH MR. GOBEL.

I'M VERY WEARY OF APPROVING ANOTHER SITE IN EL EL CAJON.

I'M VERY, VERY WEARY, WEARY OF IT BECAUSE OF THE SAME REASONS THAT, UM, THAT MR. GOBEL SAID, AND, AND, AND OUR CITY MANAGER SAID AS WELL.

SO I'M IN AGREEMENT ON THAT POINT.

THANK YOU, JOE, GO AHEAD.

UH, THANK YOU, MR. MAYOR.

UH, YOU KNOW, I AGREE WITH EVERYTHING THAT MY COLLEAGUES, COUNCIL MEMBER ORTIZ AND, UH, AND THE COUNCIL MEMBER GOBEL HAVE SAID, UH, THIS CITY HAS DONE MORE FOR THE HOMELESS THAN ANY OF THE OTHER CITIES IN THE COUNTY.

UH, AND I LOOK AT E C T L C AS, AS REALLY A SUPERSTAR IN THE BUSINESS OF TAKING CARE OF THE HOMELESS.

UH, SINCE JANUARY 1ST, 2016, I'VE ALWAYS HAD AT LEAST TWO GRADUATES STAYING AT MY HOUSE.

THEY KINDA, THEY COME IN AND THEY, YOU KNOW, THEY GET THEIR CREDIT FIXED UP AND, AND THEY STAY AT MY HOUSE AND THEY DO A GREAT JOB.

AND THEY EVEN MOP THE FLOOR FOR ME SOMETIMES.

BUT, YOU KNOW, THEY, THEY MOVE ON TO OTHER THINGS.

YOU KNOW, THEY'VE GOT A JOB THAT THEY'VE HAD UNDER THEIR BELT FOR A COUPLE YEARS, AND I'VE BECOME FRIENDS WITH, I'M STILL IN CONTACT WITH A LOT OF THEM.

AND, UH, I, I DON'T THINK WE NEED ANY MORE HOMELESS SHELTERS IN EL CAJON.

WE'VE DONE OUR PART, UH, WE'VE EVEN HAVE 200 KIDS STAYING AT E C T L C AND AT ANY GIVEN TIME, IN FACT, I JUST CHECKED, UH, A WEEK AGO, THEY HAVE 50 BEDS AVAILABLE AND THEY GO OUT AND THEY TALK TO THESE PEOPLE THAT'RE SLEEPING ON THE SIDEWALKS AND IN THE ALLEYS.

AND, UH, THEY JUST DON'T WANT ANY HELP.

THE VAST, VAST MAJORITY OF THEM.

SO I THINK WHAT WE HAVE LEFT NOW ARE THE REAL HARDCORE OF THE HOMELESS.

NOW THAT'S DIFFERENT THAN THE MOM THAT'S LIVING IN A CAR WITH THE KIDS WITH THEM.

I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT THAT WE TRY EVERYTHING WE CAN TO, TO GET THEM HOUSING.

AND AS COUNCIL MEMBER ORTIZ SAID, IT'S NOT A DRUG PROBLEM WITH THEM.

IT'S JUST A MATTER OF CIRCUMSTANCES MOST OF THE TIME.

UM, I DON'T WANT TO ENCOURAGE OR PAY FOR THE SELF-DESTRUCTIVE LIFESTYLE OF THE HOMELESS THAT ARE ADDICTED TO GR DRUGS AND THE ONES THAT ARE BREAKING INTO CARS AND, YOU KNOW, HASSLING PEOPLE, UH, WHEN THEY WANNA GO SHOPPING OR THE ONES THAT ARE AT THE FREEWAY EXITS BEGGING FOR MONEY THAT MAKE OUR COMMUNITY LOOK BAD.

AND I ESPECIALLY, UH, WISH THAT WE HAD SOME WAY OF PROTECTING OUR RETAILERS FROM THE HOMELESS RUNNING

[01:15:01]

UH, YOU KNOW, THAT.

BUT THAT'S, AGAIN, A STATE ISSUE WHERE HANDS ARE PRETTY MUCH TIED ON THAT.

SO, UM, I THINK THAT, UH, WE'RE HEADED IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION, UH, WITH THIS CITY REGARDING THE HOMELESS.

UH, I LIKE TO CALL IT TOUGH LOVE.

AND AT SOME POINT THEY HAVE TO SHOW SOME PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY, UH, WITH, YOU KNOW, A HELPING HAND FROM THE CITY.

I KNOW THAT EACH ONE OF 'EM OUT HERE IN THE STREETS HAVE BEEN APPROACHED BY VARIOUS SOCIAL SERVICE AGENCIES AND E C T L C ABOUT FIVE TIMES, BUT THEY'RE GONNA KEEP TALKING TO 'EM.

AND SOMEDAY, MAYBE A LARGE NUMBER OF THEM WILL HIT BOTTOM, REALIZE I DON'T WANT TO DIE IN THE GUTTER AND WILL TURN THEIR LIVES AROUND.

SO, UH, AND EVERYTHING THAT I HEAR FROM THE PUBLIC IS THEY DO NOT LIKE THE SITUATION WHERE PEOPLE ARE, HAVE THEIR TENTS ON THE, ON THE STREET OR THE SIDEWALKS.

AND, UH, I THINK THAT THAT'S JUST NOT TOLERABLE.

I DON'T WANT TO END UP LIKE SAN FRANCISCO OR LOS ANGELES WHERE THEY'RE JUST BLOCKS AND BLOCKS OF, OF TENTS.

AND I WANNA COMMEND OUR POLICE DEPARTMENT.

THEY'VE DONE A FANTASTIC JOB OF GETTING RID OF THE HOMELESS CAMPS, UH, ESPECIALLY WHEN THEY POP UP, UH, IN DOWNTOWN EL CAJON.

THEY'RE, THEY'RE GONE PRETTY QUICK.

SO THANK YOU, CHIEF.

I REALLY APPRECIATE YOUR EFFORTS ON THAT.

AND I KNOW IT'S NOT AN EASY JOB AND THEY SEE THE SAME PEOPLE OVER AND OVER.

AND, UH, THAT'S ALL I HAVE TO SAY RIGHT NOW.

THANK YOU, GARY.

UM, SO, UH, I GOT A COUPLE OF THINGS I'D LIKE TO SAY.

FIRST OFF, AS FAR AS THE FORUMS GO, I THOUGHT THAT ONE OF THEM WAS KIND OF GOOD AND INTERESTING, BUT THERE ARE SO MANY PEOPLE THERE FROM THE NGO COMMUNITY, SO MANY PEOPLE THAT WERE KIND OF INTRICATELY INVOLVED IN MAKING THEIR LIVING FROM PROVIDING FOR HOMELESS SHELTERS OR HOMELESS SERVICES AND, YOU KNOW, SO DEEPLY INVOLVED IN THAT, THAT IT DIDN'T REALLY FEEL TO ME LIKE A REAL TOWN HALL.

IT, IT FELT MORE LIKE A HOMELESS FORUM AMONGST THE, THE PEOPLE THAT WERE WORKING IN THE, IN THE HOMELESS INDUSTRY.

PEOPLE THAT WERE TASKED WITH PROVIDING FUNDS AND SHELTER.

AND, UH, IF THAT'S WHERE WE'RE GOING FOR, THAT'S, THAT'S FINE.

BUT I WOULD LIKE TO FIND A WAY TO ACTUALLY HAVE, UH, PUBLIC FORUMS WHERE WE COULD REALLY INTERACT WITH, WITH THE PUBLIC AND, AND LESS INTERACTING WITH ACTIVISTS.

AND THERE'S A PLACE TO INTERACT WITH ACTIVISTS.

BUT I WAS REALLY CURIOUS TO FIND OUT NOT ONLY WHAT THE PEOPLE OF EL CAJON AND THE RESIDENTS OF ELCON WERE THINKING AND FEELING, BUT ALSO I WA I WAS LOOKING FORWARD TO THE OPPORTUNITY FOR THEM TO BE EDUCATED.

YOU KNOW, BECAUSE THERE'S SO MANY MISCONCEPTIONS ABOUT WHAT HOMELESSNESS IS, WHAT WE CAN DO, WHAT WE SHOULD BE DOING, UM, WHAT THE LAWS SAY, WHAT, WHERE OUR HANDS ARE TIED.

ALL THOSE THINGS I THINK WOULD'VE BEEN VALUABLE IF WE HAD BEEN ABLE TO GET TO THAT.

SO, UH, MISDEMEANOR, I THINK YOU'RE RIGHT.

I MEAN, THAT'S WHY ON THE VERY, IT TOOK US THREE TO FIGURE THAT OUT BY THE, THAT LAST FOURTH TOWN HALL.

WE SEGREGATED THE SERVICE PROVIDERS FROM I GUESS, THE AVERAGE RESIDENT, RIGHT? AND I THOUGHT IT, I THOUGHT IT WAS USEFUL TO HAVE THAT CONVERSATION FOR THEM TO HAVE THE USE THE CONVERSATION WITHOUT THAT INVOLVEMENT.

I THOUGHT THAT WAS USEFUL.

IT'S ONE OF THE REASONS, I THINK AT THE CONCLUSION, ONE OF THE CHALLENGES, YOU CAN'T SAY EVERYONE'S INVITED, WE WANT EVERYONE TO SHOW UP, BUT EXCEPT FOR YOU PEOPLE, RIGHT? YEAH.

UM, BUT IT'S ONE OF THE REASONS THAT WE'RE TARGETING LOCAL CHURCHES AND PTAS AND BUSINESS GROUPS.

CAUSE I THINK WE'RE GONNA THEN ALMOST THRUST OURSELVES ON PEOPLE.

CUZ IT'S, LISTEN, IF YOU'RE A PARENT, I MEAN, PHIL'S A YOUNG PARENT STILL, RIGHT? YOU HAVE, YOU, YOU GOT KIDS IN SCHOOL, YOU GOT KIDS IN SPORTS FINISHING UP SOCCER PRACTICE, COMING OUT TO A CITY MEETING AT SIX 30 ON A TUESDAY EVENING.

IT'S REALLY HARD THING TO DO.

RIGHT? MY WIFE LET ME KNOW THAT TOO.

YEAH, I'M SURE SHE DID.

SO I THINK IF WE CAN GO TO THEM, I THINK THAT MAY BREAK DOWN THAT BARRIER THAT YOU'RE CONCERNED ABOUT.

MR. MAYOR.

I, I THINK YOU'RE EXACTLY RIGHT.

I THINK GOING TO A CHURCH AND, AND ADVERTISING FOR SEVERAL WEEKS BEFOREHAND THAT ON THIS SUNDAY AFTER SERVICES, IF YOU'D LIKE TO STICK AROUND AND, AND TALK WITH CITY OFFICIALS ABOUT THIS, I, IT IT MIGHT BE MORE VALUABLE OR AT LEAST VALUABLE IN A DIFFERENT WAY.

YES, I AGREE.

OUR FAIR SHARE AND, AND WE SHOULDN'T, THERE'S PLENTY OF ROOM IN WITHIN THE COUNTY FOR, FOR THE HOUSING FIRST MODEL.

NOW, AS FAR AS NEW SHELTERS GO, UM, I'M CERTAINLY NOT INTERESTED IN ANY KIND OF A HOUSING FIRST MODEL.

UM, YOU KNOW, I THINK IN REGARD TO THAT, WE ARE DOING

[01:20:02]

IN FACT, SINCE REALLY, UM, THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAYS YOU CAN'T SPEND ANY MONEY ON A PROGRAM THAT ISN'T MAKING HOUSING FIRST, THEIR PRIMARY MODEL, YOU CAN'T DO IT.

SO IF, IF YOU HAVE A PROGRAM LIKE E C T L C OR THE RESCUE MISSION, YOU CAN'T FUND THOSE PROGRAMS BE BECAUSE THEY, THEY REQUIRE SOBRIETY.

THEY REQUIRE SOME, THEY HAVE SOME RULES ABOUT CONDUCT AND BEHAVIOR.

SO SINCE THE REST OF THE WORLD IS BASICALLY EMBRACING THIS, I'M MORE, I AM INTERESTED IN BEING MORE AS THE PLACE WHERE THERE'S AN ALTERNATIVE FOR PROGRAMS THAT WORK.

NOW, IN ORDER TO DO THAT, YOU HAVE TO HAVE PROGRAMS THAT ARE FUNDED BY PRIVATE DONATIONS IN THE BUSINESS COMMUNITY.

AND E C TLC'S DONE A GREAT JOB OF THAT.

I'M ALSO A BIG FAN OF THE SAN DIEGO RESCUE MISSION.

AND, UM, I, UM, SEE WHAT THEY'RE DOING WITH, WITH PRIVATE DONATIONS.

AND I'M REALLY IMPRESSED WITH THEIR HUGE VISION.

THEY REALLY INTEND TO SIGNIFICANTLY PUT A, PUT A, UM, A DENT IN HOMELESSNESS IN SAN DIEGO.

THEY'RE BUILDING, UH, HUGE SHELTERS, UM, THROUGHOUT THE COUNTY.

AND I KNOW THEY'D LIKE TO COME AND, AND BE INVOLVED IN EL CAJON.

UH, I WAS INTERESTED WHEN, WHEN THEY WANTED TO COME OUT AND WE WERE GONNA USE THE COUNTY'S FUNDS FOR THAT, WHICH, BY THE WAY, THE COUNTY SHOULD BE GIVING US FUNDS FOR THAT, BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT THE COUNTY'S JOB IS.

THEY, THE COUNTY'S JOB IS TO ALLOCATE THOSE MENTAL HEALTH FUNDS AND THOSE DRUG AND ALCOHOL FUNDS AND THOSE HOUSING FUNDS, UH, THROUGHOUT THE COUNTY.

UM, IT SEEMS IRONIC TO ME THAT THEY ARE PUTTING SO MUCH EMPHASIS ON EL CAJON AND, AND PLACING SO MANY OF THESE PEOPLE IN EL CAJON, AND YET THEY'RE STINGY WHEN IT COMES TO GIVING ANY, ANY ALLOCATIONS TO RESOURCES.

UM, BUT HAVING SAID THAT, IF WE WERE TO BRING, UM, THE RESCUE MISSION IN TO BUILD ANOTHER SHELTER, UH, THEY WOULD BE PAYING FOR THEMSELVES.

THEY, THEY WOULD BE PROVIDING THEIR, THEIR OWN FUNDING.

AND I THINK THAT THERE'S A PLACE FOR THAT HERE.

I REMEMBER WHEN I WAS, I WAS ON THE COUNCIL WHEN THE EAST COUNTY TRANSITIONAL LIVING CENTER FIRST CAME IN FRONT OF US, AND THESE HALLS WERE FILLED WITH PEOPLE VERY, VERY CONCERNED THAT IF WE BUILT E C T L C, THAT THIS WOULD BE A MAGNET TOWARDS HOMELESS PEOPLE THROUGHOUT THE COUNTY AND, AND THAT IT WOULD CAUSE OUR HOMELESS PRO PROBLEM TO INCREASE.

I DON'T THINK IT'S EASY TO MAKE THE, THE CASE THAT THAT'S HAPPENED.

I THINK WE'VE HELPED A LOT OF PEOPLE.

AND FRANKLY, THAT'S WHY I GOT INTO, UM, WORKING IN MENTAL HEALTH IN THE FIRST PLACE AND THEN LATER GETTING ON THE CITY COUNCIL.

I WANTED TO HELP PEOPLE.

I, I, I'VE, I'VE ALWAYS HAD A, A DEEP ABIDING NEED TO DO THAT.

AND SO I STILL WANT TO LOOK AT THE OPPORTUNITY TO HELP PEOPLE, BUT IN HELP HELPING PEOPLE IN WAYS THAT ACTUALLY HELPS, UM, BECAUSE WE COULD ARGUE ABOUT THE MERITS OF HOUSING FIRST.

BUT I, I THINK IF YOU LOOK AT THE FACT THAT AFTER 17 BILLION HAS BEEN SPENT ON HOUSING FIRST WE'VE INCREASED THE NUMBER OF HOUSING STOCK BY 35% FOR, FOR HOUSE FOR, UH, HOMELESS INDIVIDUALS.

AND WE'VE SEEN 48% MORE PEOPLE ON THE STREETS.

HOUSING FIRST IS A ABJECT FAILURE, AND THE ONLY PEOPLE WHO WON'T AGREE TO THAT AND DON'T ADMIT THAT ARE THE PEOPLE THAT ARE MAKING BILLIONS OF DOLLARS OFF THE BUSINESS OF BEING IN THE BUSINESS OF TREATING HOMELESSNESS.

SO I JUST WANNA KEEP AN OPEN MIND.

UM, AND I SAY THIS BECAUSE I'M GONNA BE MEETING WITH DONNIE D WHO IS THE, THE CEO OF THE RESCUE MISSION ON THURSDAY.

I IMAGINE HE WANTS TO TALK TO ME ABOUT LOOKING AT A WAY TO GET THE COUNTY TO COME BACK IN AND PUT SOME MONEY INTO THE BUILDING OF SHELTER.

AND THEN LATER ON HE, HE WOULD AGREE TO, UM, PAY FOR THE REGULAR UPKEEP OF IT.

AND I DON'T THINK WE SHOULD USE THE, THE CONCEPT THAT IF WE BUILD IT, THEY WILL COME.

I I IDEA, UM, I THINK WE KNOW FROM EXPERIENCE WITH E C T L C THAT IF WE BUILD IT AND WE DO IT THE RIGHT WAY, PEOPLE WILL GET HELPED AND THEY'LL GET CLEAN AND THEY'LL GET OFF THE STREETS.

AND I FEEL GOOD ABOUT THAT.

SO I KNOW WE'RE NOT MAKING A DECISION ON THAT TODAY, BUT I JUST WANNA BE, IN COMPLETE DISCLOSURE, I'M GONNA BE COMING AND ADVOCATING FOR THAT IN THE FUTURE.

SO THANK YOU.

YES, STEVE, I, I GUESS TO, TO HAVE A, AN OPEN DISCUSSION.

SURE.

IF THERE ARE 50 SOME BEDS

[01:25:01]

AVAILABLE AT E C T L C, ONE IMPLICATION IS IF YOU WANT OFF THE STREET IN EL CAJON, THERE'S A PLACE READY.

IT DOES HAVE RULES.

IT'S NOT JUST HOUSING FIRST.

IT DOES HAVE RULES.

IT DOES.

SO THAT ALMOST SAYS THEN THERE ARE STILL A LOT OF PEOPLE LIVING ON THE STREETS OF EL CAJON WHO DON'T WANT TO GET OFF THE STREETS OF EL CAJON.

I THINK THAT'S TRUE.

UM, I'VE BEEN TRYING TO GET A MOM INTO E C T L C AND I TALKED TO PASTOR ROLAND TODAY AND HE'S GOT A WAITING LIST FOR HIS TINY HOMES.

AND SO IF WE BUILD ANOTHER SHELTER WHEN WE HAVE EXCESS CAPACITY HERE, IT DOES MEAN BY DEFAULT YOU'LL BE BRINGING PEOPLE IN FROM OUTSIDE THE CITY.

AND WHICH IS, WE HAVE COMPASSION BECAUSE E C T L C IS ALREADY DOING THAT.

WE'VE SEEN POLICE CARS FROM OTHER AGENCIES DROP OFF PEOPLE THERE.

THE PROBLEM IS NOT GETTING PEOPLE HELP, THE PROBLEM IS THOSE THAT BOUNCE OUTTA THE PROGRAM REMAIN IN EL CAJON AND BECOME OUR MANAGEMENT NOW INSTEAD OF THE PLACE FROM WHERE THEY CAME.

AND I THINK THAT'S THE CONCERN OF SOME OF THE TOWN HALL RESIDENTS THAT I HEARD IS WE'LL HELP BUT FROM PEOPLE FROM OUTSIDE THE AREA BECAUSE HEY, WE'VE GOT GREAT PARTNERSHIPS.

IT IS OUR PARTNERSHIPS THAT HAVE PLACED 972 PEOPLE IN HOUSING IN THE PAST THREE OR FOUR YEARS.

IT'S NOT US.

WE, WE PROVIDED FUNDING.

THEY'RE DOING GREAT WORK RESCUE MISSION.

ABSOLUTELY.

THE CONCERN IS IF WE BRING PEOPLE FROM OUTSIDE THE CITY, THAT IF THEY BOUNCE OUT THAT THEY REMAIN HERE.

I THINK THAT'S WHAT OUR RESIDENTS TOLD US IN THE TOWN HALLS.

WELL, I, UH, YOU KNOW, I FIRST OFF, I I I, I DON'T COME TODAY COMPLETE WITH A, WITH A PLAN.

UM, AND IT'S JUST, THOSE ARE MY THOUGHTS.

UM, IF WE GET TO THE POINT WHERE, UH, UM, THE RESCUE MISSION ONE OF THE BUILD IN EL CAJON, I THINK THOSE ARE VALID QUESTIONS THAT WE, WE WOULD HAVE TO ASK THEM HAVE, UM, ANSWERS TO.

I DO THINK IT'S A DIFFERENT PROGRAM THAN I'VE BEEN KIND OF INVOLVED WITH BOTH MY, MY WIFE WAS A THERAPIST AT, AT CITY DIEGO RESCUE MISSION.

SO I SPENT A LOT OF TIME DOWN THERE AND I THINK IT'S A VERY DIFFERENT PROGRAM THAN E C T L.

SO IT'S GONNA ATTRACT A DIFFERENT KIND OF PERSON.

AND IT GET, THERE ARE SOME PEOPLE THAT ARE GONNA HAVE, UM, FRANKLY, EC TLC IS A MORE RELIGIOUS PROGRAM THAT THAN THIS IS.

SO THERE, I THINK THERE ARE PROBABLY ARE ROOM FOR PEOPLE ON THE STREETS THAT HAVE REJECTED A RELIGIOUS PROGRAM COMPLETELY THAT MIGHT, THAT MIGHT BE WILLING TO GO TO THE RESCUE MISSION.

THAT SEEMS TO BE WHAT'S HAPPENED IN SAN DIEGO.

BUT, UM, I, THE OTHER PART OF IT IS, I, I, I THINK I JUST WANT TO HEAR WHAT THEY HAD TO SAY.

I, I'M JUST, I'M JUST SAYING THAT I WOULD BE RELUCTANT TO BRING IN A HOUSING FIRST KIND OF MODEL WHERE I WOULDN'T NECESSARILY BE RELUCTANT TO DO, TO SEE E C T L C EXPAND OR TO SEE THE RESCUE MISSION COME IN AND FILL ANOTHER SPACE.

IT, AND YOU'RE RIGHT, IF THEY COULD SHOW US THAT THERE WAS A WAY THEY COULD DO THAT WITHOUT CAUSING OUR PROBLEM TO, TO INCREASE.

AND, UM, SO THAT'S KINDA WHERE I, I I DON'T KNOW THE ANSWERS TO YOUR YEAH, SO FROM WHAT I, FROM WHAT I UNDERSTAND FROM E C T L C, RIGHT NOW, THEY'RE IN NEED OF FAMILY SHELTER.

THE SINGLES, USUALLY YOU CAN GET BEDS FOR A SINGLE PERSON EITHER TO GO OUT TO THE RANCH OR TO THE TWO DORMITORIES THAT THEY HAVE.

BUT WHAT THEY'RE IN SHORT SUPPLY OF IS FAMILY, UM, FAMILY ROOMS. SO IF YOU'VE GOT 10, THEY HAVE A WAITING LIST FOR THEIR FAMILIES, UH, TO GET IN.

UM, AND SO YES, IF ONE OF US WERE TO CALL, THEY WOULD DO US, YOU KNOW, A SOLID AND HELP US GET THAT PERSON IN.

BUT IF IT'S JUST A MOM AND HER KIDS COMING UP AND SAY, I NEED SHELTER, THERE IS A WAITING LIST FOR THAT.

UM, I THINK PART OF THE PROBLEM IS, IS THAT IF THE SINGLES, I THINK WE CAN HANDLE, UH, BUT I THINK WE DO, THERE'S SOME RESPONSIBILITY FOR FAMILIES THAT WE NEED TO GET OR HAVE ADDITIONAL SHELTER FOR FAMILIES.

IT'S BECOMING INCREASINGLY MORE AND MORE DIFFICULT FOR FAMILIES TO, UM, PAY RENT.

UM, YOU KNOW, A LOT OF PEOPLE WANT RENT CONTROL.

UM, THEY WANT LOW INCOME HOUSING.

AND WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THAT BEFORE WHERE OWNERSHIP DOES CLEAN UP A NEIGHBORHOOD.

AND I, AND I AGREE, UM, BUT WHEN YOU STILL HAVE AN ENORMOUS AMOUNT OF PEOPLE WHO CANNOT MAKE IT ON JUST WHAT THEIR WAGES ARE, I, I WOULD LIKE TO SEE MORE TINY HOMES.

[01:30:01]

THAT'S A NEED SOMETHING FOR THE MOMS AND THE KIDS.

UM, THE MOM THAT I'M TRYING TO GET IN IS A MOM WITH A BABY.

THAT ONE'S KIND OF SHADY RIGHT NOW AS FAR AS WHAT'S GOING ON.

BUT STILL, WE DON'T HAVE THE, IF E C TLC DOESN'T HAVE A BED AND THE TINY HOMES ARE GONE, WHAT DOES SHE HAVE? AND THERE'S REALLY, THE FUNDING IS RUN OUT FOR VOUCHERS FROM HOME START, FROM WHAT I UNDERSTAND.

IT'S EITHER SLOWING DOWN AND I COULD BE, IF SOMEBODY ELSE HAS DIFFERENT INFORMATION ON THAT.

SO I AGREE WITH YOU.

I, I DON'T LIKE THE HOUSING FIRST MODEL.

I THINK WE DO NEED TO LOOK AT HAVING HOUSING OR A SHELTER, HAVING SHELTER OPTIONS THAT ADDRESS THE DIFFERENT NEEDS, LIKE FOR DOGS OR, YOU KNOW, THAT'S A BARRIER TO GET PEOPLE INTO HOUSING.

BUT BEFORE WE BROUGHT ANYBODY IN, I'D LIKE TO SEE IF C T'S GONNA GO THROUGH WITH GETTING THEIR SHELTER.

AND I THINK THAT'S COMING UP.

DOES ANYONE KNOW WHAT THE STATUS IS ON THAT? BECAUSE I KNOW THAT THE COUNTY'S BEEN TALKING TO C T ABOUT IT TURNED IT DOWN.

THEY TURNED IT DOWN COMPLETELY.

UH, BUT I AGREE WITH YOU TO, TO YOUR POINT, UM, TO YOUR POINT, THE, UM, RESCUE MISSION WOULD BE A GOOD ALTERNATIVE FOR THAT BECAUSE THEY DO TAKE FAMILIES IN.

SO.

UM, SO WHERE ARE WE AT? I, I NEED TO ASK ANGELA, DID SHE RECEIVE ANY COMMENTS FOR THIS? YES.

THANK YOU, SIR.

WE HAVE ONE SPEAKER.

REBECCA BRANSTETTER.

HELLO, HOW ARE YOU? GOOD, HOW ARE YOU? GOOD, THANKS.

GOOD.

I'D LIKE TO, UH, MY REBECCA BRANSTETTER.

UM, I WANNA TAKE THIS TIME TO COMMEND BOTH THE CITY STAFF.

I SEE A LOT OF THEM SITTING ALONG THE PERIMETER OF THIS ROOM AND THE MAYOR AND COUNCIL FOR CONVENING THOSE FOUR COMMUNITY MEETINGS ON HOMELESSNESS IN OUR CITY.

UM, IT WAS GRATIFYING TO ME AS A CITIZEN AND ENCOURAGING TO ME AS A VOLUNTEER FOR THE EAST EAST COUNTY HOMELESS TASK FORCE, TO SEE OUR CITY ACTIVELY TAP INTO THE COMPASSION, INTELLIGENCE, AND LIFE EXPERIENCE OF OUR COMMUNITY TO WORK TOGETHER AND FIND SOLUTIONS TO AN ISSUE THAT AFFECTS US ALL.

HAVING ATTENDED ALL FOUR MEETINGS, I WAS PARTICULARLY STRUCK BY THE NUMBER OF EVERYDAY RESIDENTS WHO REALLY WANT TO BE PART OF THE SOLUTIONS.

SO MANY PEOPLE ASK, WHAT CAN I DO? I HOPE THAT WORKING WITH THE CITY AND OUTREACH WORKERS AND FAITH COMMUNITIES AND CIVIC ORGANIZATIONS, THAT WE CAN FIND TANGIBLE, REAL LIFE WAYS TO GET CONCERNED AND WILLING COMMUNITY MEMBERS AND INVOLVED IN A HANDS-ON WAY.

THESE MEETINGS PROVIDED AN IMPORTANT FIRST STEP TOWARD GIVING OUR COMMUNITY MEMBERS A FACTUAL WORKING KNOWLEDGE OF THE ISSUE BEFORE WE CAN EXPECT ANY KIND OF SUSTAINED SUPPORT OR EVEN TOLERANCE FOR A NUMBER OF SOLUTIONS.

CUZ IT'S ONLY THEN WHEN WE'RE EDUCATED THAT WE CAN BEGIN TO UNDERSTAND AND SOLVE THE PROBLEM AS A COMMUNITY.

AND I MENTIONED THIS AS A FIRST STEP, UM, SIMPLY BECAUSE THE DISCUSSIONS IN THOSE MEETINGS FOCUS PRIMARILY ON THE PEOPLE WHO ARE UNSHELTERED AND LIVING OUTSIDE, TO YOUR POINT, COUNCIL MEMBER ORTIZ, THAT WAS CLEARLY AN APPROPRIATE PLACE TO START.

BUT I HOPE WE CAN USE THE MOMENTUM AND GOODWILL FROM THOSE MEETINGS TO EXPLORE WAYS TO LOOK AT OTHER MORE HIDDEN ASPECTS OF HOMELESSNESS AND HOUSING INSECURITY.

ESPECIALLY KNOWING THAT IN THIS PAST SCHOOL YEAR, CA, HOME VALLEY UNIFIED SCHOOLS IDENTIFIED 500 CHILDREN IN GRADES K THROUGH 12 WHO ARE HOMELESS.

WE CAN BE SURE THEIR HOUSING INSECURITY AFFECTS THEIR LEARNING, IT IMPACTS THEIR TEACHING, AND IT COSTS US ALL IN THE LONG RUN.

SO GOING FORWARD, I HOPE WE CAN USE THE MODEL OF THE COMMUNITY MEETINGS AS A, STARTING AS A BUILDING BLOCK TO, UH, BROADER SUPPORT AND COOPERATION WITH EACH OTHER AND OUR GOVERNMENT ON A NUMBER OF ISSUES THAT AFFECT OUR COMMON LIFE.

MAYBE EVEN PARKWAY PLAZA VISIONING.

I HOPE IT'LL, UH, IT THAT SHAPES US INTO A, A REAL COMMUNITY, THE BEST KIND OF COMMUNITY.

AND AS ASIDE, I'D LIKE TO, UH, SAY THAT I REALLY APPRECIATE THE OPPORTUNITY THAT THE CITY ENCOURAGED AND ARRANGED FOR US TO HAVE TO RIDE ALONG WITH THE OUTREACH WORKERS FROM HOME START.

THAT EXPERIENCE WAS EYEOPENING IN SO MANY WAYS, SEEING THE HEARTBREAKING CONDITIONS UNDER WHICH SO MANY PEOPLE LIVE AND WITNESSING THE DEDICATED, TIRELESS, FEARLESS COMPASSION OF THE OUTREACH WORKERS WHO KEEP COMING BACK UNTIL THEIR CLIENTS ARE FINALLY READY TO COME INSIDE.

SO THANK YOU AGAIN TO OUR DEDICATED CITY STAFF, TO OUR DEDICATED CITY COUNCIL AND MAYOR FOR OPENING YOURSELVES TO THESE SOMETIMES DIFFICULT CONVERSATIONS AND FOR GIVING US YOUR TIME AND THE OPPORTUNITY TO MEET TOGETHER AND WORK TOGETHER FOR THE CITY WE ALL SHARE.

UM, ANY MORE DISCUSSION OR SOMEBODY I'D LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION, UH, MOVE TO RECEIVE THE REPORT? YEAH.

[01:35:01]

UH, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, WE NEED TO TAKE QUICK BREAK, BUT WE'LL BE BACK IN FIVE MINUTES OR LESS AND CONTINUE THE MEETING.

ITEM 14 UP TO THEIR NEXT, UM, ITEM.

COUNSEL, WHILE YOU'RE ON YOUR BREAK, UM, YOU'LL NOTICE, YOU MAY NOT NOTICE THIS, BUT WE HAD A ZONING MAP ON THAT BACK WALL.

YOU PROBABLY CAN'T EVEN SEE IT.

I DON'T EVEN KNOW WHEN IT WAS CHANGED, BUT WE'VE REPLACED IT WITH AN ART PIECE THAT A LOCAL BUSINESS DONATED TO US.

SO IT WAS BEAUTIFUL.

AND YOU'RE, AND YOU'RE MILLING ABOUT, YOU MAY WANNA GO CHECK OUT THAT PIECE OF ART.

PRETTY AMAZING MR. DEMA, WE ARE BACK.

WE'RE GONNA GO AHEAD AND CONTINUE.

AND GRAHAM MITCHELL HAS GOT SOMETHING TO TELL US.

UM, UH, MR. MAYOR AND COUNCIL, WE HAVE UH, ACTUALLY ANOTHER SPEAKER ON THE LAST AGENDA ITEM.

UM, THE MAYOR RECOMMENDED THAT WE, WE HEAR THAT SPEAKER.

AND THEN I WOULD RECOMMEND THAT WE MOVE AGENDA

[14. Compensation for Executive and Unrepresented Employees (A-29), City Manager, and City Attorney RECOMMENDATION: That the Mayor provides an oral report summarizing recommended changes in compensation for the City’s “local agency executives” and, following the report, that the City Council: Approves the changes to City Council Policy A-29 described below and reflected in the attachment; and Adopts the next Resolutions, in order, to approve the amendments to the employment contracts with the city manager and city attorney, and authorizing the Mayor to execute the amendments, substantially in the forms as presented.]

[01:40:01]

UM, AND TAKE THAT OUT OF ORDER IF THE COUNCIL'S OKAY WITH THAT.

SOUNDS GOOD.

UM, YOU WANNA INVITE THE NEXT SPEAKER TO COME UP? OF COURSE.

VICTOR NAVARRO.

HI.

WELL SIR, HOW YOU DOING? MY HAIR? GOOD, WELCOME.

SO, UM, I'M KIND OF NERVOUS CUZ I NEVER SPEAK.

OH, DON'T.

BUT UM, AND I KNOW MY REAL NAME, BUT I HEAR YOU GUYS, RIGHT? AND I'M VERY ACTIVE ON FACEBOOK.

I KNOW ON HAPPENINGS AND EVERYTHING.

AND THE PROBLEM IS EVERYBODY HATES THEM ALL.

AND MARS AREN'T DYING.

PLAZA BONITAS BOOMING, UTCS BOOMING.

I TOOK MY DAUGHTER, SHE GOES TO GROSSMONT HIGH.

SHE, SHE RAN INTO LIKE THREE OF HER FRIENDS AT UTC.

UM, IT'S JUST OUR MALL HAS A BAD RAP AND I'M ALWAYS UNDER THERE DEFENDING IT.

THEY SAY IT'S A TRAFFICKING CIRCLE OR A TRAFFICKING CENTER OR WHATEVER.

AND THEN SOME CITY COUNCIL MEMBERS PUNISH BUSINESS OWNERS FROM THE MALL.

SO THAT DOESN'T LOOK GOOD.

BUT ANYWAYS, UM, THAT'S THE ONE THAT, THAT'S THE ONE ITEM.

YOU KNOW, YOU GOTTA WANT PEOPLE TO COME TO OUR MALL, BUT NOBODY WANTS TO COME IF YOU'RE ON ALCOHOL HAPPENING, EVERYBODY HATES THEM ALL.

THEY TALK CRAP ABOUT IT.

SO I THINK IF YOU HAD SOME GOOD STORES IN THERE AND CLEAN UP THE IMAGE, PEOPLE WOULD COME, YOU KNOW? SO THAT'S FIRST AND FOREMOST.

AND THEN THE SECOND ITEM IS, UM, THOSE HOMELESS FORUMS I WENT TO EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM FOR FREE.

I DON'T GET PAID OBVIOUSLY, RIGHT? I WENT CUZ OF ME, CUZ I CARE, CUZ I LIVE HERE.

AND UM, LIKE THE FIRST TWO WAS 90% PEOPLE WHO WERE GETTING PAID OR THEY HAVE A BEST INTEREST OR SHE LEFT VESTED INTEREST.

SO IT WAS KIND OF LIKE A JOKE.

I THINK, UH, MAYBE THE THIRD OR FOURTH MAYBE IN HIS DISTRICT PEOPLE ACTUALLY CAME OUT, MAYBE LIKE 15 PEOPLE WERE ACTUALLY CITIZENS.

UM, YOU KNOW, EVERYBODY ELSE HAD, THEY HAVE UM, THEY GOT MONEY, YOU KNOW, THEY WANNA MAKE MONEY, YOU KNOW, OBVIOUS HOMELESS COMPLEX.

AND UM, SO THAT'S ONE THING.

BUT THE SECOND THING IS YOU ALREADY HAVE E E C T L C.

YOU ALREADY HAVE ALL THE HOMELESS MOTELS WITH 195 PEOPLE.

AND THEN, UM, HOME START PASSPORT, WE GOT LIKE 13 SERVICES YOU REALLY BRING, YOU REALLY WANNA BRING ANOTHER SHELTER HERE, YOU KNOW, AND THEN IT GOES BACK TO THE FACEBOOK.

EVERYBODY ON FACEBOOK, I EVEN TAG HER SOMETIMES WHEN PEOPLE NEED HELP, BUT EVERYBODY KNOWS WHERE TO GO.

YOU GO TO EL CAJON AND THEY'LL TAKE YOU AND MIGHT TAKE SOME TIME, BUT THEY'LL TAKE YOU.

SO THE RESCUE MISSION, THE WAY THEY WERE OPERATING, UM, THE WAY THEY WERE OPERATING ON 17TH AND THE LOGAN OR WHATEVER THAT WAS, HUNDREDS OF HOMELESS OUTSIDE.

I HAVEN'T DROVE BY THE ONE DOWNTOWN, BUT I DON'T, I DON'T KNOW.

I UNDERSTAND WHY YOU WANNA KEEP BRINGING MORE AND MORE SERVICES.

I UNDERSTAND.

AND YOU KNOW, I KNOW YOU'RE HAVING A FUNDRAISER TOMORROW, IF I GOTTA GO TELL YOU THERE, I'LL TELL YOU THERE TOO.

APPRECIATE IT.

OKAY, MR. MILLER? YEAH.

CAN I ADDRESS THE TRAFFICKING THING? I I, MAN, I'D LIKE TO GET THIS MESSAGE OUT.

SO FROM WHAT I UNDERSTAND IS, MANY, MANY YEARS AGO, PERHAPS MORE THAN 10 YEARS AGO, A SAN DIEGO POLICE DETECTIVE DID A PRESENTATION TO THE GROUP ABOUT HUMAN TRAFFICKING.

MY UNDERSTANDING IS THAT A SLIDE CONTAINED, UH, DESCRIPTION OF MALLS AS ONE PLACE WHERE HUMAN TRAFFICKING CAN OCCUR.

AND INADVERTENTLY HE SHOWED A PICTURE OF PARKWAY PLAZA.

HE DID NOT SAY PARKWAY PLAZA IS A HUMAN TRAFFICKING SOURCE.

I BELIEVE I'M GONNA LOOK TO THE POLICE.

DO I HAVE THAT RECOLLECTION? RIGHT? I HAVE IT RIGHT.

SO PLEASE DO NOT SAY PARKWAY PLAZA IS A HUMAN TRAFFICKING HUB, BECAUSE THAT IS FALSE.

IT'S BASED ON FALSE INFORMATION FROM SOMETHING THAT SOMEBODY SAID FROM A PRESENTATION MORE THAN 10 YEARS AGO.

AND IT'S BAD FOR OUR CITY TO CONTINUE WITH THIS FALSE REPUTATION AND IT'S BAD FOR PARKWAY PLAZA.

OH, BUT WAIT, WAIT, BUT I'M NOT SAYING THAT EVERYBODY ELSE SAYS THAT.

I'M, I'M THE GUY DEFENDING HIM SAYING YOU'RE FULL OF S**T.

UM, EVERY, YOU KNOW, THERE'S NO PROBLEMS THERE.

AND LAST TIME I, I GOT INTO IT WITH HER LITTLE FRIEND, MICHELLE'S FRIEND, AND SHE, CUZ HER DAUGHTER'S A RUNAWAY WITH A GUN AND WHATEVER, RIGHT? AND UM, SO I TOLD HER, IT'S NOT THE MALL'S FAULT THAT YOU GOT NINE OR 10 KIDS ROBBING PEOPLE AND DOING THINGS.

IT'S THE PARENTS' FAULT.

SO SHE WENT OFF, YOU KNOW, SHE WENT OFF ON ME AND I CUT THE FLOOR.

YEAH, IT, LOOK, I'M NOT SAYING IT'S A TRAFFIC SCENE, I'M SAYING WELL, I I APPRECIATE THAT, BUT YOUR TIME IS UP WHEN ALL RIGHT, THANK YOU.

[01:45:01]

THANK YOU STEVE.

I'M SORRY TO HEAR INTERRUPT.

SO I JUST WANT TO GET THE WORD OUT THERE THAT PARKWAY PLAZA IS NOT A PLACE, A HUB OF HUMAN TRAFFICKING.

AND AS MANY PEOPLE CAN SPREAD THAT ON NEXTDOOR ON FACEBOOK, WHATEVER WE CAN DO, UH, THAT WOULD BE GOOD FOR PARKWAY PLAZA BUSINESSES AND THE CITY.

STAND MR. GOBEL AND, AND THE REST OF THE CITY COUNCIL.

I ACTUALLY ASKED THE CHIEF EARLIER TODAY, CAUSE I KNEW THIS WOULD PROBABLY COME UP.

WHEN IS THE LAST TIME WE HAD, UM, SOMEONE CALL 9 1 1 ABOUT A KIDNAPPING AT PARKWAY PLAZA? IT'S NEVER HAPPENED IN THE HISTORY OF PARKWAY PLAZA.

NO ONE HAS BEEN KIDNAPPED FROM PARKWAY PLAZA.

WHEN HAVE WE HAD A REPORT OF HUMAN TRAFFICKING AT PARKWAY PLAZA? WE'VE NEVER HAD A REPORT OF HUMAN TRAFFICKING AT PARKWAY PLAZA.

I'M SURE PARK TRAFFICKING OCCURS ALL OVER THE PLACE ALL THE TIME, BUT THERE'S NEVER BEEN A CRIMINAL REPORT OF THOSE TWO THINGS.

AND SO I, I AGREE WE NEED TO PUT OUT THE WORD.

UM, AND I KNOW COUNSEL INTERACTS ON SOCIAL MEDIA A LOT.

I THINK THAT THAT NEEDS TO BE SAID AND WE NEED TO CONTINUE THAT BEATING THAT DRUM.

UM, NOW WE'RE UP TO ITEM 14, IS THAT RIGHT? YES, SIR.

UM, ITEM ITEM 14 IS FOR COMPENSATION FOR EXECUTIVE AND UNDERREPRESENTED EMPLOYEES.

UNDER POLICY A 29, THE CITY MANAGER AND THE CITY ATTORNEY.

I'LL ASK THE DIRECTOR OF HUMAN RESOURCES, MARISOL THORN, TO PLEASE INTRODUCE THIS ITEM.

GOOD AFTERNOON, MAYOR AND MEMBERS OF THE COUNCIL.

I AM HERE AGAIN THIS YEAR, UH, TO GO OVER A BRIEF SUMMARY OF THE PROPOSED CHANGES FOR THE COMPENSATION PLAN FOR EMPLOYEES UNDER CITY COUNCIL POLICY A 29, AS WELL AS CONTRACT AMENDMENTS FOR THE CITY MANAGER AND THE CITY ATTORNEY.

THIS YEAR STAFF IS RECOMMENDING A THREE AND A HALF PERCENT COST OF LIVING INCREASE FOR NON-SAFETY EMPLOYEES UNDER THE CITY COUNCIL POLICY AND 5% FOR SAFETY EMPLOYEES.

THESE ADJUSTMENTS ALIGN WITH OUR MUNICIPAL AND SAFETY REPRESENTED GROUPS.

ADDITIONALLY, WE'RE RECOMMENDING AN INCREASE TO THE CAFETERIA BENEFIT ALLOTMENT THAT WILL BE IN EFFECT JANUARY OF 2024 FOR $1,450 PER MONTH.

AND AS STATED IN THE REPORT THAT WAS PRESENTED TO YOU, THERE ARE OTHER ADJUSTMENTS INCLUDING MARKET ADJUSTMENTS FOR SPECIFIC CLASSIFICATIONS, AND I'M HERE TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS YOU MAY HAVE.

ARE THERE ANY QUESTIONS? THANK YOU, MARISOL.

ANY SPEAKER CARDS ON THIS ITEM? NO SPEAKER CARDS, SIR.

MARISOL THORN, DIRECTOR OF INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY.

SO IS NOW THE TIME THAT I READ THIS STATEMENT.

NOW IS THE TIME IT FIRST SIGNING THE STATE THAT CALIFORNIA LAW REQUIRES THAT PRIOR TO TAKING FINAL ACTION ON THE SALARY, SALARY SCHEDULES, OR COMPENSATION PAID IN THE FORM OF FRINGE BENEFITS OF WHAT ARE KNOWN AS LOCAL AGENCY EXECUTIVES, THE LEGISLATIVE BODY SHALL ORALLY REPORT A SUMMARY OF A RECOMMENDATION FOR SUCH A FINAL ACTION.

A LOCAL AGENCY EXECUTIVE INCLUDES ANY EMPLOYEE OF THE CITY WHO IS NOT SUBJECT TO THE MYERS MILIUS BROWN ACT, AND WHO IS THE CITY MANAGER, THE ASSISTANT CITY MANAGER, A DEPARTMENT HEAD, OR WHOSE POSITION IS HELD BY AN EMPLOYMENT CONTRACT, WHICH INCLUDES THE CITY ATTORNEY.

SO FOR THE PURPOSES OF DISCLOSURE, THIS REPORT INCLUDES ACTION ON SALARIES AND COMPENSATION IN THE FORM OF FRINGE BENEFITS FOR THE FOLLOWING LOCAL AGENCY EXECUTIVES, CITY MANAGER GRAHAM MITCHELL, ASSIST, ASSISTANT CITY MANAGER, VINCE DIMAGGIO, CITY ATTORNEY MORGAN FOLEY, CITY CLERK, ANGELA CORTEZ, DIRECTOR OF COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT.

ANTHONY SCHU, DIRECTOR OF FINANCE, CITY TREASURER, CLAY SCHONE, DIRECTOR OF HUMAN RESOURCES.

SARAH DIAZ, DIRECTOR OF PUBLIC WORKS, YASMIN ARIANO, DIRECTOR OF PARKS AND RECREATION, FRANK CARSON AND POLICE CHIEF MICHAEL MOULTON.

NOW FOR THE PROPOSED CHANGES, FIRST IT IS PROPOSED THAT EACH OF THESE EMPLOYEES, WITH THE EXCEPTION OF THE POLICE CHIEF RECEIVE A GENERAL SALARY COST OF LIVING INCREASE OF 3.5% EFFECTIVE JUNE 24TH, 2023.

AND IT IS PROPOSED THE POLICE CHIEF AND THE POSITION OF FIRE CHIEF RECEIVE A GENERAL COST OF LIVING INCREASE OF 5%.

THE FOLLOWING ARE THE PROPOSED MARKET ADJUSTMENTS FOR THESE EMPLOYEES

[01:50:01]

AND ADDITIONAL 3% FOR THE CITY CLERK, 2% FOR THE DIRECTOR OF INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY AND THE DIRECTOR OF OF FINANCE.

9% FOR THE DIRECTOR OF PARKS AND RECREATION, 7% FOR THE DIRECTOR OF PUBLIC WORKS AND 5% FOR THE DIRECTOR OF HUMAN RESOURCES AND THE DIRECTOR OF COMMUNITY COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT.

AS PART OF CONTRACT AMENDMENTS FOR THE CITY MANAGER AND CITY ATTORNEY, AN INCREASE OF $20,000 FOR THE CITY MANAGER'S, CITY CON CONTRIBUTED DEFERRED COMPENSATION AND BIWEEKLY PAY ADJUSTMENT FOR THE CITY ATTORNEY TO REFLECT $7,161 AND 33 CENTS.

SECOND, IT IS PROPOSED THAT EACH OF THESE EMPLOYEES RECEIVE AN INCREASE IN HIS OR HER CAFETERIA PLAN, BENEFIT OF $100 EACH BEGINNING THE IN JANUARY OF 2024, $1,450.

I SHOULD NOTE THAT THE CURRENT BENEFIT IS $1,350 EACH MONTH.

AS FURTHER COMPENSATION IS PROPOSED, THAT THE POLICE CHIEF CONTINUES TO RECEIVE A NON PERSONABLE STIPEND OF $6,300, ONE HALF OF WHICH WOULD BE PAID IN JULY, THAT OTHER HALF OF WHICH BEING PAID IN DECEMBER.

ADDITIONALLY, IT IS PROPOSED THAT THE POLICE CHIEF RECEIVE AN ANNUAL IN INCREASE IN UNIFORM BENEFITS OF $325, BRINGING THE ANNUAL AMOUNT TO $1,000.

THIS CONCLUDES THE SUMMARY OF PROPOSED CHANGES TO SALARIES AND COMPENSATION OF THE FORM OF FRINGE BENEFITS TO THE CITY EXECUTIVES AS IS REQUIRED BY LAW.

NOW BEFORE WE MOVE ALONG, THERE IS A REPORT FROM THE CITY MANAGER ON THIS MATTER OR IS THERE A REPORT? UH, UH, MR. MAYOR, I HAVE NO REPORT, BUT WE'RE, UH, I CAN ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS THAT YOU MAY HAVE AS WELL AS MS. THORN.

ANY QUESTIONS? ALRIGHT, THANK YOU.

NEXT, I WOULD LIKE TO ASK THE CITY COUNCIL IF YOU HAVE ANY DISCUSSION BEFORE WE ASK FOR ANY COMMENTS FROM THE PUBLIC.

ALL RIGHT, THANK YOU, ANGELA.

UH, I THINK I ASKED YOU BEFORE, BUT JUST TO MAKE SURE, DO WE HAVE ANY SPEAKERS ON THIS? NO SPEAKER CARD, SIR.

AT THIS POINT, I'M LOOKING FOR A MOTION AND A SECOND ON THIS AGENDA ITEM.

UH, MOVE TO APPROVE.

SECOND, PLEASE VOTE.

TO ITEM 12, WHICH IS AN ANALYSIS OF RECENT CHANGES IN OTHER CITIES IN SAN DIEGO COUNTY REGARDING CAMPING AND PERSONAL PROPERTY IN PUBLIC AREAS.

GOING BACK IN TIME NOW

[12. An Analysis of the "Camping and Storage of Personal Property in Public Areas" Ordinance from the City of Poway and the "Unsafe Camping Ordinance" from the City of San Diego RECOMMENDATION: That the City Council receives the staff report and provides appropriate direction to staff.]

I'LL ASK THE ASSISTANT CITY MANAGER TO PLEASE INTRODUCE THIS ITEM.

THANK YOU, MAYOR.

MEMBERS OF COUNCIL, UM, CITY OF POWAY AND CITY OF SAN DIEGO HAVE RECENTLY ADOPTED CHANGES TO THEIR MUNICIPAL CODE REGARDING CAMPING REGULATIONS.

UM, THE CITY OF SAN DIEGO APPROVED THEIR ORDINANCE ON JUNE 13TH, UH, JUST A COUPLE OF WEEKS AGO, AND THE CITY OF POWAY, UH, ADOPTED THEIR ORDINANCE, UM, WHICH WILL TAKE EFFECT, UM, UH, BARRING THE ABSENCE OF A SECOND READING OR THE DENIAL OF A SECOND READING THAT THEY, THEY WILL HAVE A SECOND READING ON THAT JULY 18TH, AND THAT WILL TAKE EFFECT 30 DAYS THEREAFTER.

UM, THERE, THERE ARE A LOT OF NUANCES AND BOTH THE ORDINANCES ARE SUBSTANTIALLY THE SAME.

AND SO, BUT THERE ARE A LOT OF NUANCES.

SO I DIDN'T PREPARE A POWERPOINT PRESENTATION WITH A MATRIX BECAUSE I WOULD RATHER JUST VERBALLY EXPLAIN WHAT THE, WHAT THE CHANGES ARE TO THE ORDINANCES, AND THEN I'LL SUMMARIZE HOW WE ADDRESS THE VERY SAME ISSUE.

TH THIS IS AN OUTGROWTH OF MARTIN V BOISE.

UH, THE TWO ORDINANCES COME, COME OUT OF THAT.

UM, AND AS YOU'LL RECALL, AND I'LL JUST STATE FOR THOSE WHO DON'T KNOW, UH, MARTIN V BOISE WAS A NINTH CIRCUIT COURT, UM, CASE FROM 2018 THAT BASICALLY SAID THE CITIES, CITIES CANNOT ENFORCE ANTI CAMPING ORDINANCES IF THEY DON'T HAVE SHELTER SPACE AVAILABLE FOR THEIR HOMELESS POPULATION.

IT WAS, IT WAS HELD UNDER THE EIGHTH AMENDMENT, UH, TO THE UNITED STATES CONSTITUTION THAT CRIMINALIZING SLEEPING IN ON PUBLIC PROPERTY OR ON PUBLIC SIDEWALKS BECAUSE THERE'S AN ABSENCE OF SHELTER SPACE IS CRUEL AND UNUSUAL PUNISHMENT.

AND SO IT'S A NOVEL APPROACH TO EIGHTH AMENDMENT JURISPRUDENCE.

IT'S TYPICALLY THE EIGHTH AMENDMENT.

YOU'LL, YOU'LL SEE LARGER SCALE ARGUMENTS SUCH AS, UM, SHOULD, UH, MINOR OFFENDERS BE SENTENCED TO LIFE IN PRISON WITHOUT PAROLE? IS THAT CRUEL OR UNUSUAL? THIS IS, THIS IS A NOVEL APPROACH TO, UH, WHETHER OR NOT CRUEL AND UNUSUAL PUNISHMENT, UM, CONSTITU IT IS CONSTITUTED BY THIS.

SO IT, IT WAS INTERESTING.

AND IN 2019,

[01:55:02]

THE UNITED STATES SUPREME COURT HAD, UH, AN OPPORTUNITY TO TAKE THIS UP FOR REVIEW, UH, BECAUSE BOISE APPEALED IT AND THAT WAS TURNED DOWN.

SO WHETHER THERE WILL BE FUTURE CASES IN WHICH, UH, MARTIN V BOISE IS, IS BROUGHT UP, IS YET TO BE SEEN.

UH, THE RULING, HOWEVER, LEAVES UNDECIDED THE ISSUE OF WHETHER IT'S LEGAL TO SET LIMITS ON WHICH SPECIFIC PUBLIC PROPERTIES CAMPING AND SLEEPING IS PROHIBITED.

SO IT'S INTO THIS LEGAL LEGALLY AM AMBI AMBIGUOUS GAP THAT THE SAN DIEGO AND POWAY ORDINANCES SEEK TO DRIVE THROUGH.

NOW I'LL START WITH, UM, A BRIEF SUMMARY OF THE POWAY ORDINANCE.

POWE'S ORDINANCE PERMITS CAMPING ONLY IN AREAS SPECIFICALLY DESIGNATED FOR THAT USE, SUCH AS DESIGNATED CAMPGROUNDS.

THEY, THEIR ENFORCEMENT OF THE ORDINANCE IS PROGRESSIVE.

THEY HAVE STAFFING AND CONTRACTORS THAT WILL OFFER SHELTER PLACEMENT IF AVAILABLE.

UH, IF THAT'S REFUSED, THE PERSON MUST LEAVE THE LOCATION WHERE THE UNAUTHORIZED CAMPING IS OCCURRING.

AND FINALLY, IF THE PERSON REFUSES TO RELOCATE, A CITATION OR ARREST CAN OCCUR.

THE ORDINANCE PROHIBITS IN ALL CASES, UNAUTHORIZED CAMPING IN A CITY PARK, REGARDLESS OF WHETHER THERE'S SHELTER SPACE AVAILABLE.

UH, THE ORDINANCE ALSO PROHIBITS IN ALL CASES OBSTRUCTING PUBLIC SIDEWALKS BY SLEEPING OR STORING PROPERTY.

AGAIN, REGARDLESS OF WHETHER THERE'S SHELTER SPACE AVAILABLE.

UH, WITH REGARD TO MATERIALS THAT ARE FOUND OR PERSONAL BELONGINGS THAT ARE FOUND, THE ORDINANCE HAS A SEPARATE SECTION THAT ADDRESSES THIS.

UH, THE ORDINANCE MANDATES THAT THE CITY SHALL FIRST LEAVE NOTICE IN A PROMINENT PLACE, AND THAT THE NOTICE SHALL INCLUDE A TIMELINE FOR WHEN THE PERSONAL PROPERTY MUST BE REMOVED FROM THE PUBLIC PROPERTY.

THIS COULD BE A PARK, THIS COULD BE A SIDEWALK, THIS COULD BE ANY PUBLIC PROPERTY.

IF THE TIMEFRAME NOTICE AND ON THE NOTICE EXPIRES, THE PROPERTY CAN BE CONFISCATED, BUT IT THEN HAS TO BE STORED AND INVENTORIED FOR IT HAS TO BE INVENTORIED AND THEN STORED FOR A PERIOD OF 90 DAYS.

AND IF IT'S UNCLAIMED, IT CAN BE DISPOSED OF.

SO THOSE, THERE ARE EXCEPTIONS TO THAT RULE.

FOR EXAMPLE, IF THE PERSONAL PROPERTY IS FOUND OR ELEMENTS OF THE PERSONAL PROPERTY POSE A, UH, UH, AN IMMINENT DANGER OR THERE'S AN INFESTATION OF SOMETHING THAT COULD BE, UH, CONSTITUTED TO BE A THREAT TO PUBLIC HEALTH, IT DOES NOT NEED TO BE INVENTORIED AND STORED.

IT CAN BE DISPOSED OF AND DESTROYED IMMEDIATELY.

SO THOSE ARE THE TWO THINGS THAT ARE IN THE POWAY ORDINANCE.

I'LL MOVE NOW TO THE SAN DIEGO ORDINANCE, WHICH IS KNOWN AS THE UNSAFE CAMPING ORDINANCE, INFORMALLY KNOWN AS THE UNSAFE CAMPING ORDINANCE.

AND IT'S VERY, IT'S VERY SIMILAR, ALTHOUGH WE'RE DEALING WITH A BIGGER CITY WITH MORE PUBLIC PROPERTIES.

AND SO IT'S, IT'S A BIT MORE EXPANSIVE.

UM, THE SAN DIEGO, UH, LET ME TALK ABOUT THE PERSONAL PROPERTY REGULATIONS FIRST SINCE WE JUST ENDED THAT ON, ON POWAY.

AGAIN, EFFORT MUST BE MADE TO LOCATE THE PROPERTY OWNER PRIOR TO THE REMOVAL OF THE PROPERTY THAT'S BLOCKING OR, OR STANDING ON THE PUBLIC, UM, PROPERTY.

UM, AND THEY ABANDONED PROPERTY CAN BE DE IT CAN BE DECLARED ABANDONED AND THEN STORED IN, IN FOR 90 DAYS.

UM, THE ORDINANCE SETS SETS FORTH REGULATIONS FOR, UM, WHERE THAT PUB PUBLIC PROPERTY CAN, CAN BE STORED AGAIN, CAMPGROUNDS, UM, BUT IF IT'S ON THE PUBLIC SIDEWALK OR ON IN PUBLIC PARKS, IT CAN BE CONFISCATED, BUT IT DOESN'T HAVE THE SAME NOTICING REQUIREMENTS THAT THE POWAY ORDINANCE HAS.

IT CAN BE CONFISCATED, UH, IMMEDIATELY, BUT IT MUST BE STORED IF IT'S NOT A DANGER TO PUBLIC HEALTH.

SO THERE'S A LITTLE BIT OF A DIFFERENCE THERE IN TERMS OF THE PUBLIC PROPERTY ASPECT OF THINGS.

ABANDONED PUBLIC PROPERTY OR, OR UNINTENDED, UNINTENDED PUBLIC PROPERTY.

WITH REGARDS TO THE REGULATIONS ON ENCAMPMENTS OR CAMPING ON PUBLIC PROPERTY, THIS, THE SAN DIEGO ORDINANCE SPECIFIES STREET, SIDEWALK, PARK BENCH, UH, BEACH WATERWAY OR OPEN SPACE AREAS.

SO AGAIN, EVEN IF THERE'S NO SHELTER SPACE AVAILABLE, THE ORDINANCE PROHIBITS, UM, CAMPING UN UNLESS THERE IS AN IMMEDIATE, OR I'M SORRY, IT PROHIBITS CAMPING, BUT THREE, UH, BROADLY WORDED ENCAMPMENT PROHIBITIONS THAT ARE OPEN TO INTERPRETATION.

THE ONE IS WHEN THERE IS AN IMMEDIATE THREAT OR UNREASONABLE RISK TO HARM TO A PERSON OR PUBLIC HEALTH AND SAFETY.

SO THOSE, IT DOES NOT MATTER WHETHER THERE'S, UH, SHELTER SPACE AVAILABLE.

THE ORDINANCE CAN BE ENFORCED IF THERE'S A THREAT TO PUBLIC HEALTH SAFETY OR AN INDIVIDUAL, OR A DISRUPTION OF VITAL GOVERNMENT SERVICES.

NOW, THOSE ARE BROADLY WORDED AND CAN BE BROADLY INTERPRETED.

SO THERE'S A CHANCE

[02:00:01]

THAT PEOPLE CAN BE REMOVED, UH, FROM PUBLIC PROPERTY, UH, WITHOUT GIVING, WITHOUT THERE BEING SHELTER SPACE AVAILABLE.

THE OTHER DISTINCTION FROM THE POWAY ORDINANCE WITH REGARD TO CAMPING IS THE LOCATIONAL PROHIBITIONS.

AGAIN, IT'S VERY SPECIFIC.

THERE CAN BE NO ENCAMPMENTS OR CAMPING WITHIN TWO BLOCKS OF A SCHOOL, WITHIN TWO BLOCKS OF A SHELTER IN ANY OPEN SPACE WATERWAY, BANKS OF A WATERWAY WITHIN ANY TRANSIT HUB OR TROLLEY PLATFORM, OR ANY PARK WHERE SIGNS ARE POSTED PROHIBITING CAMPING.

SO AGAIN, THERE'S THE ORDINANCES ARE SIMILAR, BUT THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT VERY SPECIFIC LOCATIONS.

AND THESE VERY SPECIFIC LOCATIONS IS WHAT HAS GOTTEN CRITICS OF THE SAN DIEGO ORDINANCE, UH, ARGUING ABOUT IT.

THEY, THEY SAY, WELL, YOU KNOW, IN ONE CASE YOU CAN HAVE A SHELTER AND YOU'RE TWO BLOCKS AWAY, AND SO THERE COULD BE SOMEONE SLEEPING ON THE SIDEWALK ACROSS THE STREET, BUT ACRO, YOU KNOW, ACROSS THE STREET FROM THAT, IT COULD BE WITHIN THE TWO BLOCK AREA.

AND SO YOU CAN'T BE CAMPING.

SO IT'S, THERE'S SOME ARGUMENT AND MAYBE SOME LEGAL CHALLENGES TO THESE LOCATIONAL PROHIBITIONS.

NOW, AS FAR AS WHAT THE CURRENT EL CAJON ORDINANCE HAS, WE, OUR MUNICIPAL CODE SEPARATES IT INTO THREE DIFFERENT AREAS.

TITLE II, TITLE IX, AND TITLE 12.

AND THE REASON FOR THIS IS THAT CITY COUNCILS IN THE PAST HAVE HAD VARIOUS ORDINANCE CHANGES COME ABOUT OVER TIME IN RESPONSE TO SPECIFIC INSTANCES THAT WERE OF CONCERN TO THE COUNCIL.

AND SO THOSE SPECIFIC INSTANCES HAD ORDINANCES THAT WERE PLACED IN DIFFERENT PARTS OF THE MUNICIPAL CODE.

FOR EXAMPLE, IN TITLE 12, WE HAVE THE LANGUAGE, NO PERSON SHALL USE OR OCCUPY ANY PART OF A PUBLIC SIDEWALK, STREET OR ALLEY FOR ANY PURPOSE OTHER THAN NORMAL PEDESTRIAN OR VEHICLE TRAFFIC.

SO CLEARLY IT'S A DIFFERENT LANGUAGE THAN WE FIND IN THE OTHER MORE RECENT ORDINANCES, BUT CLEARLY SLEEPING OR CAMPING IS NOT THE ORIGINAL INTENTION OF THE, OF THAT FACILITY.

SO THAT WOULD BE PROHIBITED.

UM, IN TITLE TWO, WE HAVE TWO AREAS THAT, THAT SPEAK TO THIS, NO PERSONS SHALL DO ANY OF THE FOLLOWING ACTS WITHIN THE PREMISES OF ANY CITY PARK OR PLAYGROUND.

ONE OBSTRUCT THE FREE TRAVEL OF VEHICLES OR PEDESTRIANS ON ANY ROAD AVENUE WALKER PATH, OBVIOUSLY WITHIN THE CITY PARK OR TWO CAMP LODGE OR SLEEP OVERNIGHT OR BETWEEN THE HOURS OF 10:30 PM AND 7:00 AM.

SO THAT WAS A SPECIFIC CONCERN THAT WAS ADDRESSED AND PLACED IN TITLE II AT ONE TIME OR ANOTHER.

AND THEN WE HAD OUR OWN LOCATIONAL PROHIBITIONS, WHICH IS NOW PLACED IN TITLE IX AND APPLIES TO THE AREA THAT WE KNOW LOCALLY AS THE SUPER BLOCK, WHICH INCLUDES THE CIVIC CENTER, JUDSON PARK, AND PRESCOTT PROMENADE, WHICH SAYS IT IS UNLAWFUL FOR ANY PERSON TO CAMP LODGE OR SLEEP WITHIN ANY PUBLIC FACILITY OR ANY PUBLIC GROUNDS IN THE SUPER BLOCK.

NOW, THAT WAS LATER FOLLOWED IN THE SAME TITLE WITH THE SECTION THAT SAYS, UH, THAT SLEEPING OR CAMPING IS PROHIBITED, UH, ON ALL CITY PROPERTY CITYWIDE.

SO IT EXPANDED FROM THE SUPER BLOCK TO THE ENTIRE CITY.

SO THIS IS JUST A SUMMARY OF THE, THE MOST RECENT THINGS THAT HAVE BEEN GOING ON IN THE COUNTY AND STAFF IS HERE TO ANSWER QUESTIONS OR TAKE DIRECTION AS TO WHAT, IF ANY CHANGES YOU WOULD LIKE TO MAKE TO OUR CUR CURRENT ORDINANCE.

THERE IS NO STAFF RECOMMENDATION ON THIS.

HOWEVER, THERE IS, THERE IS SOME PRUDENCE IN WAITING TO SEE HOW THE, THE POWAY AND SAN DIEGO, UH, ORDINANCES ARE ACTUALLY ADMINISTERED SINCE THEY'RE SO RECENTLY ADOPTED.

AND THERE'S BEEN SOME THREAT OF LEGAL, UM, LEGAL CHALLENGE.

AND SO WE MAY WANT TO WAIT SIX MONTHS A YEAR TO SEE WHAT HAPPENS WITH THAT.

WE MAY WANT TO JUST KIND OF MONITOR IT.

WE CLEARLY HAVE THINGS IN OUR ORDINANCE THAT CONTINUE TO ALLOW US TO DO WHAT WE'VE BEEN DOING TO ABATE THESE TYPE OF THINGS.

BUT AT THIS POINT, UH, STAFF IS, IS WILLING AND ABLE TO DO WHATEVER THE COUNCIL'S DIRECTION IS.

THANK YOU, VINCE.

QUESTIONS, COMMENTS? I READ AN ARTICLE, UH, UH, IT WAS A JUDGMENT I THINK IN ARIZONA REGARDING SOME BUSINESS OWNERS IN THE DOWNTOWN AREA.

UM, SO WHERE DOES THAT, DO WE KNOW LEGALLY WHERE THAT LEAVES US? IT SEEMS LIKE CITIES ARE STUCK BETWEEN THE JUDGMENT OF A FEDERAL JUDGE, UH, UM, UH, JU UH, MAKING THE JUDGMENT IN FAVOR OF BUSINESS OWNERS WHO SUED THE CITY BECAUSE OF A HOMELESS ENCAMPMENT THAT BECAME A PUBLIC NUISANCE.

BUT THEN WE'RE ALSO ON THE OTHER SIDE STUCK BETWEEN MAR THE MARTIN AND BOISE DECISION.

UM, SO IT SEEMS LIKE WE'RE KIND OF OF STUCK BETWEEN TWO DECISIONS, TWO DIFFERENT COURT COURTS.

WELL, THERE'S CLEARLY THERE, THERE, THERE'S CLEARLY A, AS I MENTIONED IN THE STAFF REPORT, THERE'S A CONFLICT BETWEEN HOW VARIOUS CIRCUITS INTERPRET THIS ONE ISSUE.

AND FOR WHATEVER REASON, THE SUPREME COURT, WHICH USUALLY RESOLVES THOSE CONFLICTS, CHOSE NOT TO TAKE IT UP.

MAYBE IT WASN'T THE RIGHT KIND OF CASE FOR THEM TO GIVE IT A MORE EXPANSIVE RULING.

[02:05:01]

UM, WHAT WHAT THE PROBLEM IS IS THAT EVEN IN, WHEN WE LOOK AT THE POWAY AND SAN DIEGO ORDINANCES, IT SPEAKS EXPANSIVELY ABOUT PUBLIC PROPERTY, BUT IT DOESN'T SAY ANYTHING NOR CAN IT REALLY SAY ANYTHING ABOUT PRIVATE PROPERTY.

SO PRIVATE PROPERTY OWNER CAN, CAN CALL AND SAY, I'LL GIVE YOU A TRESPASSING SLIP.

WHAT CAN HAPPEN IS THE POLICE CAN ENFORCE THAT.

AND THEN WE HAVE TO LOOK AT WHAT OUR ENFORCEMENT OPTIONS ARE.

AND THAT'S ANOTHER SET OF STATE LAWS THAT REALLY TIE OUR HANDS WITH REGARD TO WHAT WE CAN DO.

EVEN WHEN YOU'RE TRESPASSING SOMEBODY WHO IS CAMPING IN A DOORWAY OFF THE PUBLIC SIDEWALK, BUT ON PRIVATE PROPERTY, ALL WE CAN DO IS MOVE THEM ALONG.

AND EVEN WHEN YOU LOOK AT WHAT THE PROGRESSIVE ENFORCEMENT IS OF THESE TWO ORDINANCES, IT'S ONE, IF THERE'S SHELTER SPACE AVAILABLE, HERE'S HOW TO GET THERE.

IF THERE'S NOT SHELTER SPACE AVAILABLE, YOU'RE CAMPING IN A PLACE THAT IS NOT DESIGNATED FOR CAMPING.

SO GO FIND ONE OF THOSE WHICH COULD BE VERY, VERY LIMITED AND VERY, VERY FAR FROM WHERE THIS PERSON IS.

BUT BASICALLY IT'S MOVE AWAY.

DON'T BLOCK THE PUBLIC SIDEWALK.

THERE'S NO EFFORT, AT LEAST IN THE ORDINANCES.

DON'T SPEAK TO ANYTHING THAT THE CITY WILL TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR MOVING PEOPLE INTO DESIGNATED CAMPGROUNDS.

WHAT THEY'RE TRYING TO DO HERE IS TAKE THE AREA OF BOISE THAT WAS SILENT AND REGULATE IT.

OKAY? BECAUSE THERE'S STILL A QUESTION ABOUT WHAT THE COURT MEANT WITH REGARD TO WHAT SPECIFIC PUBLIC PROPERTIES CAN BE, UH, IN THIS ENFORCEMENT.

AND SO THEY'RE SAYING, WELL, YOU DIDN'T SAY ANYTHING ABOUT SIDEWALKS.

YOU DIDN'T SAY ANYTHING ABOUT, UH, BEACHES.

YOU DIDN'T SAY ANYTHING ABOUT OTHER THINGS.

SO WE DO HAVE DESIGNATED CAMPGROUNDS, FOR INSTANCE, AND THAT'S WHERE YOU CAN CAMP.

I'M, I'M JUST BEING, I'M JUST GIVING YOU AN EXAMPLE.

AND, AND AS LONG AS WE PROVIDE AN AREA WHERE YOU CAN CAMP, IF WE DON'T HAVE SHELTER, THEN THAT'S THE PLACE YOU CAN GO.

SO I, I DON'T THINK THE LEGAL CONFLICT IS, IS DONE YET, BUT, BUT THE WAY THOSE CONFLICTS GET RESOLVED IS YOU HAVE ORDINANCES THAT EVENTUALLY GO THROUGH THE PROCESS.

ANY MORE QUESTIONS? UM, JUST A QUESTION, UH, VINCE, IS THERE ANYTHING THAT'S POINTING TO US NEEDING TO TAKE ANY KINDA ACTION REGARDING OUR CURRENT POLICY? I BELIEVE, AND I'VE DISCUSSED IT WITH THE CITY ATTORNEY.

I, I BELIEVE THAT WHAT'S CURRENTLY IN THE MUNICIPAL CODE CONTINUES TO ALLOW US TO ADMINISTER THE PROGRAMS WE'RE ADMINISTERING TO ADDRESS, UH, SLEEPING AND CAMPING THAT'S HAPPENING ON SIDEWALKS ALLOWS THE POLICE DEPARTMENT AND, AND STAFF TO ENFORCE THAT.

UM, IF AT SOME TIME IN THE FUTURE, THESE ORDINANCES PROVE TO BE SUCCESSFUL AND ARE NOT SUBJECT TO LEGAL CHALLENGE, I THINK IT'S WORTH MAYBE REVI REVISITING AND CONSOLIDATING OUR MUNICIPAL CODE, WHICH IS, YOU KNOW, UH, UH, REGULATIONS WHICH ARE, ARE IN THREE DIFFERENT AREAS, CONSOLIDATING IT INTO ONE AREA AND MAYBE STRENGTHENING IT.

BUT RIGHT NOW THERE'S NO, THERE'S NOT REALLY A NEED THAT THE CITY ATTORNEY NOR I SEE IN, IN REVIEWING THESE TWO ORDINANCES.

THAT, AND, AND LOOKING AT THE PROGRAMS THAT WE CURRENTLY ENFORCE AND ADMINISTER THAT REQUIRE US TAKE ACTION AT THIS MOMENT.

SO WE'RE IN A, IF IT'S NOT BROKE, DON'T FIX IT.

SITUATION AT THE MOMENT, YES.

UM, DO WE HAVE ANY, UH, SPEAKER CARDS? NO SPEAKER CARDS, SIR.

UH, STEVE, YOU WANNA MAKE A COMMENT? YEAH.

YOU KNOW, A GOOD, ON AUGUST 18TH, THERE IS A COURT TRIAL.

UH, SAN DIEGO SUPERIOR COURT JUDGE ALLOWED A CASE AGAINST A 59 YEAR OLD WOMAN DOWN IN THE MIDWAY DISTRICT OF SPORTS ARENA TO PROCEED.

SHE HAD CLAIMED, UH, SHE'S BEING CHARGED WITH BLOCKING A SIDEWALK, A MISDEMEANOR CHARGE, AND SHE HAD FOUR CLAIMS THAT HER CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS WERE BEING VIOLATED.

THE JUDGE SAID NO TO ALL FOUR OF THOSE CLAIMS SAYING, UH, HAD DEFENDANT SIMPLY MOVED HER PROPERTY ACROSS THE STREET OR DOWN THE STREET, AS SHE'S BEEN DOING FOR SEVERAL YEARS, THIS CASE WOULD LIKELY NOT EXIST.

DEFENDANT HAS CHOSEN TO FORCE THIS SHOWDOWN.

SO AUGUST 18TH, WE'RE GONNA GET A GOOD SENSE OF WHAT A COURT WILL DO WITH SOMEBODY BLOCKING A SIDEWALK.

THE POTENTIAL PENALTIES ARE SIX MONTHS IN JAIL AND UP TO A THOUSAND DOLLARS FINE.

I DON'T KNOW THAT THE COUNTY JAILS ARE GONNA TAKE THIS PERSON UNLESS A JUDGE ORDERS.

SO, AND CERTAINLY I DOUBT SHE HAS A THOUSAND DOLLARS, UH, TO PAY THE FINE.

SO IF SHE IS CONVICTED OF THIS, IT WILL BE INTERESTING TO SEE WHAT THE SENTENCING WILL BE.

UH, AS FAR AS ENFORCEMENT OF BLOCKING A SIDEWALK, I THINK AS A CITY, I THINK EVERY CITY HAS A MORAL, IF NOT LEGAL OBLIGATION TO KEEP THE SIDEWALKS CLEAR FOR ADA COMPLIANCE.

RIGHT.

MUCH LESS PUBLIC HEALTH.

SO, AUGUST 18TH, JUST TWO MONTHS AWAY, BE INTERESTING TO SEE HOW THAT, HOW THAT TURNS OUT.

DIRECTION TO STAFF SUBSEQUENT TO THIS, YOU CAN JUST RECEIVE THE REPORT.

ALRIGHT, COUNSEL, IT'S, UH, BACK TO YOU.

DO, DO WE NEED A MAYOR? YOU CAN JUST RE UH, IF THERE'S NO

[02:10:01]

UH, UH, MAKE A MOTION TO RECEIVE THE REPORT.

SECOND.

PLEASE VOTE.

MOTION.

[13. Review Third Party Contractors Providing City Beautification Services RECOMMENDATION: That the City Council receives the report and provides feedback and/or direction to staff. ]